# Motorcycles in Rain **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457 "2008-12-03T04:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/21 "2008-12-03T21:51:49Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > When was the last time you saw or heard of a motorcycle endoing? When was the last time you heard or saw a motorcycle high-side? High-siding is a _much_ more common accident. When was the last time you locked up your front brake? When was the last time you locked up your rear brake? In 20 years of riding (and not owning a car during that time) I never encountered a bike endoing, though lifting the rear is inevitable under very hard braking. No-one I know has high or lowsided on roads (track is something else) due to braking, though people I know have lowsided due to gravel or other shit on the road. I locked up the front accidentally twice (long time ago), and only escaped falling on account of having the muscle memory to release the brake as soon as it locked. I have locked the rear periodically, sometimes on purpose. Neither I, nor anyone else who is a competent rider, brakes while cranked over given any other choice. The issue isn’t endo-ing, it’s that locking the front (especially in a corner) is a recipe for disaster. However, if you are upright you should be using a lot more front than rear brake. Even in this case locking the front is worse than locking the rear, but it’s rare, and using the front is the only way to get maximum braking. Tell you what - go out, give it some berries around a corner, and then give it a hearty dose of either brake. Write back with your experiences from the hospital… ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/22 "2008-12-03T22:17:54Z")
I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m simply saying that high-siding is more common and more dangerous than endoing. I completely agree that almost all the braking comes from the front, and that you shouldn’t be braking hard in a corner. Of course nobody does that “given any other choice”; but the two main causes of accidents are rider error and not having any other choice (and we both know alcohol increases these causes exponentially). I’d rather lock the front wheel while upright than the rear wheel while leaned over, in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/23 "2008-12-03T22:26:45Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > This. Plus, locking your rear brake is much easier, and more dangerous, than locking your front brake. It’s pretty hard to get a motorcycle to endoe (sp? it’s short for end-over-end). The danger from locking the rear brake is high-siding. That’s when you lock the rear brake, and it begins to slide out from under you. If you keep it locked, you’ll probably low-side (i.e. the rider falls on the “low” or inside of the bike). If you get, say, 30 degrees from the direction of your momentum, and you release the rear brake, it will suddenly grab traction. The wheels will be going 30 degrees in one direction, while the center of gravity keeps going straight. Since the CG is always above where the wheels make contact, it will violently throw the rider and the bike over the wheels, towards the outside of the turn, on the high side of the bike. Well, my experiences differ. I used to have jolly good fun locking the rear wheel of my R6 by downshifting hard which caused the rear to fishtail, like this guy is doing on this video: [http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFxQ\_mpm14](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFxQ_mpm14) eg. on 0:37 or 1:13 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/24 "2008-12-03T22:30:52Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > The bars can be slightly easier to turn when the ground is wet. I would not expect this to be very noticeable though unless your front tire is underinflated. I’ll check that. I do know that my spare tire is over inflated. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/25 "2008-12-03T22:36:59Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m simply saying that high-siding is more common and more dangerous than endoing. I think you’re misunderstanding _him_. Locking the front brake does not necessarily result in an endo. Sometimes it just ends up in you falling down because a slippery front wheel is hard to control (that’s the way I did my own helmet test; the front wheel locked and slid sideways real fast, and my face went down. I did not endo). Thus, locking the rear is not necessarily always worse than locking the front. In general, you want to brake in a straight line, in which case locking the rear wheel isn’t really that big a deal and the high-siding you talk about isn’t an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/26 "2008-12-03T22:38:06Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Well, my experiences differ. I used to have jolly good fun locking the rear wheel of my R6 by downshifting hard which caused the rear to fishtail, like this guy is doing on this video: [http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFxQ\_mpm14](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFxQ_mpm14) eg. on 0:37 or 1:13 Well, hell, the MSF course used to _require_ an upright rear wheel skid-to-controlled stop. Locking your rear wheel when upright isn’t that bad, you can balance it roughly the same amount of time as you can balance a bike that’s completely still. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/27 "2008-12-03T22:40:01Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding _him_. Locking the front brake does not necessarily result in an endo. Sometimes it just ends up in you falling down because a slippery front wheel is hard to control (that’s the way I did my own helmet test; the front wheel locked and slid sideways real fast, and my face went down. I did not endo). Thus, locking the rear is not necessarily always worse than locking the front. In general, you want to brake in a straight line, in which case locking the rear wheel isn’t really that big a deal and the high-siding you talk about isn’t an issue. Let me start over. 1. Locking the rear wheel is more common than locking the front wheel. 2. When a locked wheel causes an accident, the resulting accident will be more devastating in a rear wheel lock that leads to a high side. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/28 "2008-12-04T08:01:28Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Let me start over. > > 1. Locking the rear wheel is more common than locking the front wheel. > > 2. When a locked wheel causes an accident, the resulting accident will be more devastating in a rear wheel lock that leads to a high side. Your original assertion was that locking your rear wheel is much more dangerous than locking your front wheel, period. That is what is being disputed. Now you’re saying something completely different by qualifying your statement to only include lockups that cause accidents. You’re disregarding the common case of a locked rear wheel causing no problem at all. Fact is, you put me on a highway at 60mph and give me a choice as to which wheel to lock up, there is no contest: the back wheel is no problem (this happened to a friend of mine whose engine siezed while he was on the freeway. He skidded to a stop and put his foot down) unless I’m turning, and if I’m turning, either one is disastrous. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/29 "2008-12-04T14:26:54Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > Your original assertion was that locking your rear wheel is much more dangerous than locking your front wheel, period. That is what is being disputed. Now you’re saying something completely different by qualifying your statement to only include lockups that cause accidents. You’re disregarding the common case of a locked rear wheel causing no problem at all. That’s why I said, “Let me start over.” I misspoke (mistyped). > [@](#): > > Fact is, you put me on a highway at 60mph and give me a choice as to which wheel to lock up, there is no contest: the back wheel is no problem (this happened to a friend of mine whose engine siezed while he was on the freeway. He skidded to a stop and put his foot down) unless I’m turning, and if I’m turning, either one is disastrous. I agree, but still assert it’s pretty damn hard to lock up the front wheel at 60mph. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457/30 "2008-12-04T18:57:03Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > That’s why I said, “Let me start over.” I misspoke (mistyped).I agree, but still assert it’s pretty damn hard to lock up the front wheel at 60mph. Never rode a chopper or trike with a kick out front end have you? In the rain and crossing diagonal RR tracks… Wheeeeeeeeeee [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycles-in-rain/475457.md?page=1)