# "Moulin Rouge" is a big foetid, stinking, steaming pile of crap **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658 "2004-05-05T16:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/61 "2004-05-06T14:35:51Z")
> [@mailman](#): > > Scout1222 was the first unfortunate soul to email and claim her ‘prize.’ I will mail her the fsspoc today, since it certainly wasn’t doing any good nestling up against the likes of **Das Boot, Kundun, American Beauty, and The Life of Brian** et. al. You say that as if you think **Moulin Rouge** is no better than, say, Glitter, or some equally really bad movie. I don’t know, it sounds kinda snobby to me anyway. Well, I own all those movies too, and **Moulin Rouge** proudly sits right up there with them, in terms of quality and prestige (and, in the case of Life of Brian, fun). > [@Eve](#): > > But she was doing it very. badly. Sorry about this, but, duh! Satine _was_ a bad actress! Her idol was Sarah Bernhardt, but Satine never could have gotten anywhere near a legitimate stage (without a very rich benefactor). Since her whole life until then had been acting (“wilting flower, bright and bubbly or smoldering temptress?”) for johns and keeping up appearances behind the scenes (remember, the other girls didn’t much like her because she was poser), she didn’t know how to be either a real person, or a real actress. She only really came to life, be a real person, with Christian. Compare the scenes with Satine and Christian rehearsing and bouncing ideas off each other with Henri, to the “and then I’ll be a real actress!” Satine with Christian was sweet and natural. She could, for the first time in her life, be herself. It’s another layer to the tragedy of her death. > [@acsenray](#): > > (Kidman is, of course, already one of the consistently worst actors on screen, so no big surprise there.) :rolleyes: :wally ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/62 "2004-05-06T14:46:57Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > You say that as if you think **Moulin Rouge** is no better than, say, Glitter, or some equally really bad movie. I don’t know, it sounds kinda snobby to me anyway. It’s snobby to categorise “Moulin Rouge” is being as bad as “Glitter”? What about “Glitter,” huh? What about “Glitter”! Isn’t that snobbishness too then? It certainly is an opinion about “MR,” just as this seems to be an opinion about “Glitter.” Same with my statement about Kidman’s acting abilities. I’m a putz because I express an opinion that she’s little more than a hack with a pretty face? ---
**Author:** ![mailman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@mailman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mailman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/63 "2004-05-06T15:55:51Z")
Look, I don’t like the movie. The few titles I listed, to me, are radically different in feel and content, and vastly superior films. Feeling the way I do does not make me a snob. Another movie I disliked was The Abyss. I actually laughed out loud in the theater when I saw it, and got shushed by some of the audience. I couldn’t help myself though, and as the thing got more and more stupid, I was unable to control my laughter at the unintended comedy that ran through this stupid film. My laughter spread to those around me, and by the end of the film the three of four rows of us toward the back were clearly having an entirely different viewing experience than the slack-jawed believers in the front part of the theater. I work with someone who loved the movie. We disagree, but she hasn’t told me I’m a snob because we don’t wee eye to eye on The Abyss. I posted in this thread 'cause I agree 100 % with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/64 "2004-05-06T16:15:17Z")
> [@mailman](#): > > Look, I don’t like the movie. The few titles I listed, to me, are radically different in feel and content, and vastly superior films. Feeling the way I do does not make me a snob. I love _Moulin Rouge!_, but I don’t think you sounded too snobbish. As long as you don’t literally or metaphorically spit upon those who liked _Moulin Rouge!_ I can’t condemn you too harshly. 😉 You gave the movie a fair chance, and if you didn’t like it then you didn’t like it. IMHO it’s as good a film as at least some you mentioned (I’d go so far as to say it’s one of the best films of the young century), but it’s also the kind of movie that’s going to grate on a lot of viewers. Some of them give up on it too soon or just don’t “get it”, but I think it’s possible to understand _Moulin Rouge!_ perfectly well without actually enjoying it. For that matter, it’s also possible to enjoy it without really understanding it. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/65 "2004-05-06T16:32:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I’m a putz because I express an opinion that she’s little more than a hack with a pretty face? Hey, hey, hey now! She’s a hack with a stunningly beautiful face and a hot, sexy body! Let’s give credit where credit is due. (Not to her, of course! I meant her parents, her make-up artists, her personal trainers, and, for all I know, her plastic surgeons.) FTR, I thought this movie was one of the best music videos ever done. Clever, creative, visually exciting, and a clever use of old pop songs in a new context. Unfortunately, the best music video ever made still doesn’t come anywhere CLOSE to being a bearably watchable move. There’s a **reason** music videos dont last more than four minutes. BLEACHHHHHHHH! I especially don’t get the women I know who get all teary-eyed over the romance and tragedy. Besides being cliched, there was absolutely nothing believable about the romance, even given granting it all the conceits of the format. The characters were Saran Wrap–not even an attempt at the illusion of substance to them. If they’d somehow been able to make it work emotionaly, I thnk it could have been a good, maybe even a great movie. But to me, it had all the emotional depth of a Mentos commercial, with none of the irony. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/66 "2004-05-06T16:46:32Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > I especially don’t get the women I know who get all teary-eyed over the romance and tragedy. Oh, I didn’t shed a single tear. I was too busy being swept away by the cinematography, editing, choreography, costumes, special effects . . . But, then, I _am_ a "filmie’ . . . ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/67 "2004-05-06T17:04:59Z")
I only cry at the image of Freddy Mercury dying of AIDS, singing The Show Must Go On. I think he would have been proud of the way they used the song in the movie. sniff. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/68 "2004-05-06T17:11:46Z")
I gotta stick to the middle of the road on this one… I liked the movie just fine, thought the re-use of modern songs was clever … it was a bit silly and prone to exaggeration, but hey, so am I. 3.5 of 5 stars. Wouldn’t buy it, but wouldn’t change the channel if it happened to come on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/69 "2004-05-06T17:36:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s snobby to categorise “Moulin Rouge” is being as bad as “Glitter”? What about “Glitter,” huh? What about “Glitter”! Isn’t that snobbishness too then? It certainly is an opinion about “MR,” just as this seems to be an opinion about “Glitter.” Your opinion is your own (ok, your own and a few other unfortunate souls), but my opinion is backed up all the nominations and wins listed on this page: [http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0203009/awards](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0203009/awards) including an Academy Award nomination for Best Picture. and the 94 film critics who put it on their “Best of” lists for 2001: [Film Critics’ Top 10 Lists for 2001](http://www.cineperspective.com/List/01top10s.htm) It probably would have won even more awards if **The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring** hadn’t come out that year. It also made $117,852,339 at the box office. _Some_ people liked it. But yeah, you could say that Independence Day made more money, sometimes not so hot movies are nominated for Oscars, and critics are just snobs and their opinions don’t mean anything. So what? It’s not my “opinion” that **Moulin Rouge** is better-regarded than Glitter. The facts back me up. > [@acsenray](#): > > Same with my statement about Kidman’s acting abilities. I’m a putz because I express an opinion that she’s little more than a hack with a pretty face? Yeah, yeah, that makes you a putz. Or, at the very least, someone who hasn’t seen **To Die For, The Others, Birthday Girl, The Human Stain, Dead Calm, Portrait of a Lady, The Hours** and **Dogville** , and is therefore giving an opinion based on ignorance. If you don’t like her, fine, but she’s a good actress who deserved her Oscar (though I admit I was rooting for Julianne Moore). I respect her because she doesn’t just do the same roles over and over. Every role is different. She experiments, and is in a position now to work with actors, directors and writers she admires, box office potential be damned. She is not a “hack” and just the fact that you’d say it makes me think that, yeah, you’re a putz. Or a $cientologist, which is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/70 "2004-05-06T17:41:55Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Oh, I didn’t shed a single tear. I did. So did my big, burly, biker-guy-lookin’ husband. > [@Eve](#): > > I was too busy being swept away by the cinematography, editing, choreography, costumes, special effects . . . But, then, I _am_ a "filmie’ . . . Yeah, that too. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/71 "2004-05-06T17:46:28Z")
Before I get jumped on, I apologise to acsenray for implying that he/she was a $cientologist. That was a terrible insult and I’m sorry I said it. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/72 "2004-05-06T19:07:55Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Before I get jumped on, I apologise to acsenray for implying that he/she was a $cientologist. That was a terrible insult and I’m sorry I said it. So, uh… who’s going to point out that Nichole Kidman is a scientologist? FWIW, I watched it on a flight. Hated it. The only thing that kept me from jumping off the airplane at the time was the thought that at least it was better than Armageddon. ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/73 "2004-05-06T19:24:22Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > And just what is your problem with Elton \*one of the greatest and most talented musicians, singers and/or songwriters of the last 50 years \* John? His grammar is appalling (“And there’s no-one there to raise them if you did”). ---
**Author:** ![mailman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@mailman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mailman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/74 "2004-05-06T20:08:15Z")
Let’s see if I have this right: it made a lot of money, and critics loved it, therefore it is good. If A, then B. It’s a simple logic problem. I guess I must have been wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/75 "2004-05-06T20:16:28Z")
> [@Mausmagill](#): > > So, uh… who’s going to point out that Nichole Kidman is a scientologist? She’s not a $cientologist. She’s never been a $cientologist. She probably took a few courses and she certainly attended some functions to please her hubby, but she never joined. Her father is a psychologist. If she were deep into the cult she almost certainly would have had to cut off all contact with him. Rumor has it that Tom and Nicole split because Cruise wanted their kids to go to a $cieno school, and Kidman wouldn’t allow it. Yeah, that’s all conjecture and my [cites](http://www.lermanet.com/cos/tom.htm) aren’t much better than tabloid fodder, it all makes sense to me. > [@](#): > > LONDON DAILY MAIL > > Wife who tired of Cruise control > by Daniel Jeffreys, Daily Mail, in New York > > "Kidman admitted three years ago that she was only a fringe member of > the church. > > ‘I believe in a bit of Scientology, Catholicism, Judaism and the > Eastern philosophies. I take a bit of each. I’m a hybrid,’ she said. > > 'I would never have married Tom if he had insisted I become an > out-and-out Scientologist. > > ‘That would’ve been forcing me to do something I didn’t want to do. He > and I allow ourselves to be who we are.’ > > Friends of Cruise say that attitude did not sit well with Scientology > leaders, who demand absolute dedication. > > ‘Tom takes his religion very seriously,’ said a producer who worked > with Cruise on Mission: Impossible. > > ‘It would not have been easy for him to see Nicole treat Scientology > like just one more dish in a religious smorgasbord.’ That is just what > Kidman discovered when she was at a party with Cruise and Mel Gibson. > The Australian actor began to tease Cruise about his religion. > > 'Tom lost his cool completely, ’ said an actor who was present. > > ‘Unfortunately, Mel couldn’t stop laughing at his own joke and this > made it worse.’ > > Full Article Here > > © Associated Newspapers Ltd., 07 February 2001 mailman, brush up on your reading skills, then read what I wrote. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/76 "2004-05-06T20:26:57Z")
> [@mailman](#): > > I work with someone who loved the movie. We disagree, but she hasn’t told me I’m a snob because we don’t wee eye to eye on The Abyss. _Goodness!_ And **lieu** thinks _he_ has weird bathroom problems at work! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/77 "2004-05-06T20:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > That is just what Kidman discovered when she was at a party with Cruise and Mel Gibson. The Australian actor began to tease Cruise about his religion. > > 'Tom lost his cool completely, ’ said an actor who was present. > > ‘Unfortunately, Mel couldn’t stop laughing at his own joke and this made it worse.’ Oh, to have been a fly on that wall! Damn, I miss working for _Movieline_, sometimes, and going to those parties. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/78 "2004-05-06T20:41:05Z")
> [@Ross](#): > > His grammar is appalling (“And there’s no-one there to raise them if you did”). Lyrics are by Bernie Taupin. John does the music. And from way back: Yes, of course MR was better than _Chicago_. I am stunned that this is even debatable. _Chicago_ was mediocrity run rampant and an insult to anyone who had seen the show live. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/79 "2004-05-06T20:56:13Z")
> [@Ross](#): > > His grammar is appalling (“And there’s no-one there to raise them if you did”). You’re kidding, right? I have to come to the defense of my favorite singer/musician here. Remember that Elton isn’t the one who writes the lyrics…it’s Bernie Taupin. There are lots of lyrical glitches in Elton John’s songs but they aren’t his fault. (And from what little I know about show biz in general, it’s quite an insult to ask a songwriter to change a lyric or even to ask what it means…musician to musician, that is.) Elton gets a piece of paper with words on it. Everything else you hear: melody, vocal inflection, range, difficult piano work (Ryan Adams said working with him was like going to chord boot camp)…is all Elton. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658/80 "2004-05-06T20:58:51Z")
Sorry for the double answer on Elton. \*\*Exapno \*\* came in with his (much more consise 😃 ) answer while I was composing mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-is-a-big-foetid-stinking-steaming-pile-of-crap/243658.md?page=5)