# Moulin Rouge - What the hell was THAT all about?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 16, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366 "2004-04-16T14:39:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/21 "2004-04-16T17:18:18Z")
For my wife and I, our rating of movie quality is now:
- What a waste of money/time (doesn’t happen often)
- If it comes on TV, I’ll watch it again
- I’d borrow or rent it to see it again
- We’ve _ **got** _ to buy that one!
We have the DVD. If you liked the beginning, you’ll like the whole crazy thing. For all the great reasons posted above, and more.
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/22 "2004-04-16T17:46:44Z")
I definitely thought Moulin Rouge was fun, although I hate Elton John’s “Your Song” in general (“these things that I do - I’ve forgotten if they’re green or they’re blue”? WTF?), and “Like a Virgin” should never, ever be sung by a male voice (a determination I came to after seeing Moulin Rouge, not a pre-conceived notion).
I did enjoy both it and Chicago, but I think I lean slightly more toward Chicago. Richard Gere and Renee Zellweger were AMAZING in that one, while in Moulin Rouge, Satine’s dying at the end never really sat well with me. Sure, we knew from the beginning of the movie that it was going to happen, but it feels wrong to go through a whole movie’s worth of romantic plot and have it end with no payoff.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/23 "2004-04-16T17:50:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> …these things that I do - I’ve forgotten if they’re green or they’re blue"? WTF?),
He’s talking about the color of his loves eyes:
> [@](#):
>
> Anyway, the thing is
> What I really mean,
> Those are the sweetest eyes
> I’ve ever seen.
Since “Your Song” is my favorite Elton ballad, I’m sure I won’t dislike it in this movie.
Thanks everybody! You’ve got me bouncing with anticipation here. 😃
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/24 "2004-04-16T17:54:27Z")
I’m with **Eve** : largeish fan of _MR_, not a big fan of _Chicago_.
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/25 "2004-04-16T18:26:26Z")
I enjoyed _Chicago_. Not one of my favorite movies, but watching Richard Gere (who I normally dislike) was such a treat.
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/26 "2004-04-16T18:30:07Z")
I’m a huge fan of both, although I lean a little on the side of **Chicago**.
And I’m mystified that **Eve** , of all people, would not adore any movie set in the 20s with fabulous production values in an atmosphere of sleaze and glamor (or glamorous sleaze).
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/27 "2004-04-16T18:31:05Z")
> [@Lamia](#):
>
> Oh, and the 1952 _Moulin Rouge_ is a fictionalized biopic of Toulouse-Lautrec. It’s supposed to be a good period drama, but I’ve never seen it. Surprisingly enough, the 2001 _Moulin Rouge!_ (note punctuation) is actually fairly accurate historically, once you make allowances for the many deliberate anachronisms.
It wasn’t that fictionalized: I mean, Zsa Zsa Gabor really _did_ know Toulouse Lautrec back in the 1890s . . .
As for _Chicago_, it rolled off my knife. It was too campy, aren’t-we-too-cute-for-words 1920s, rather than _real_ 1920s. The hair, the makeup, the costumes—all wrong. The musical numbers (and choreography) didn’t impress me, and I thought the only performer who came off well was Queen Latifah, who was laughably miscast (a _black_ prison matron in the 1920s?). Plus, they killed the stark unhappy ending of the 1928 version and tacked on that stupid-ass “tie it all together” ending.
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/28 "2004-04-16T20:32:09Z")
> [@cmkeller](#):
>
> I definitely thought Moulin Rouge was fun, although I hate Elton John’s “Your Song” in general (“these things that I do - I’ve forgotten if they’re green or they’re blue”? WTF?)
I have to come to the defense of my favorite singer/musician here. Remember that Elton isn’t the one who writes the lyrics…it’s Bernie Taupin. There are lots of lyrical glitches in Elton John’s songs but they aren’t his fault. (And from what little I know about show biz in general, it’s quite an insult to ask a songwriter to change a lyric or even to ask what it means…musician to musician, that is.) Elton gets a piece of paper with words on it. Everything else you hear: melody, vocal inflection, range, difficult piano work (Ryan Adams said working with him was like going to chord boot camp)…is all Elton.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/29 "2004-04-16T20:52:16Z")
I don’t know… it all makes perfect sense to me. It’s a guy singing about this song that he’s writing for/about his lover. He’s really unsure if it’s worth anything, he talks about how composing it gave him some problems, but, well, here it is.
The structure is a little convoluted, yes, but that’s the point: as far as pop music is concerned, Bernie Taupin is far more interesting than your average lyricist and he and Elton collaborated wonderfully for almost a decade.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/30 "2004-04-16T20:53:44Z")
Anyway, I’m going to set a bad example for my employees and duck out early. Their jaws will drop with shock, certainly, but dammit: _I want this movie_. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/31 "2004-04-16T21:07:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> Anyway, I’m going to set a bad example for my employees and duck out early. Their jaws will drop with shock, certainly, but dammit: _I want this movie_. 🙂
Great!
(You \*will \* let us know what you think, right?)
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### Author:  [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/32 "2004-04-16T21:40:18Z")
Starving Artist:
> [@](#):
>
> I have to come to the defense of my favorite singer/musician here. Remember that Elton isn’t the one who writes the lyrics…it’s Bernie Taupin.
I was not blaming the very talented Mr. John for the lyrics, merely identifying the song as “his” because I associate it with him.
JohnT:
> [@](#):
>
> He’s talking about the color of his loves eyes:
Well, that certainly makes some sense out of the line, but darned if that interpretation ever would have occurred to me without your telling me it.
One thing’s for certain: From your various comments in this thread, I can tell that you’re going to love this movie.
Chaim Mattis Keller
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/33 "2004-04-16T22:16:15Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#):
>
> Great!
>
> (You \*will \* let us know what you think, right?)
But of course.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/34 "2004-04-16T22:23:16Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> …I thought the only performer who came off well was Queen Latifah, who was laughably miscast (a _black_ prison matron in the 1920s?).
_Thank you._ I thought QL was great in the role but the miscasting bugged me as well. I mentioned it to some people and somehow the idea that I would know that the chance of a black prison matron in the 20s was unlikely to the point of impossibility somehow made me racist.
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### Author:  [@Magickly\_Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magickly_Delicious)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/35 "2004-04-16T22:25:03Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#):
>
> (Listen carefully to the Argentinian in the bohemian celebration right after the duke agrees to finance Spectacular! Spectacular!.. the camera pans across him and his girl and he whispers…)
Pretty please tell me what he says! I own the DVD and have watched that scene probably ten times and have no clue. :o
I love _Moulin Rouge_. You will be hooked by the Elephant scene, I promise. 🙂
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/36 "2004-04-16T22:28:15Z")
> [@cmkeller](#):
>
> Starving Artist:
>
> I was not blaming the very talented Mr. John for the lyrics, merely identifying the song as “his” because I associate it with him.
>
> JohnT:
>
> Well, that certainly makes some sense out of the line, but darned if that interpretation ever would have occurred to me without your telling me it.
>
> One thing’s for certain: From your various comments in this thread, I can tell that you’re going to love this movie.
>
> Chaim Mattis Keller
Here are the [full lyrics](http://www.eltonography.com/songs/your_song.html) if you’re interested.
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### Author:  [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/37 "2004-04-16T22:39:30Z")
The reactions to this movie are always interesting. People who dislike are alweays saying something to the effect of: “Well, they fell in love, and then she got sick and died, what’s the big deal.” The thing is, any movie can be summed up in ‘25 words or less’ and rightfully so: “A robot comes from the future to kill the boy who will be leader of the resistence” or “A young starry-eyed, naïve hero sets out with his father’s old friend for the adventure of rescuing a princess and ends up saving the galaxy.”
The plot is almost never the reason to see a movie, I mean, there are only so many basic themes - revenge (just about every movie w/Mel Gibson), a bumpy road before the couple finds true love (any rom-com), overcoming your inabilities / achilles heel (like greek drama and Die Hard) or the good old good vs evil. The reason to see a movie is to be entertained / thrilled / frightened / enlightened / saddened / amused / whatever. If MR doesn’t do this for you, fine, but don’t come dragging out the old “There wasn’t any plot”-mantra, since that can be said about just any movie. You want plot and depth? Read a book.
The other reason some people spew vitriol on that movie is Nicole Kidman. I don’t know what the woman has done wrong to be able to raise such animosity, but it must be something. I find her to be a very good actress, possibly one of the top three in her generation.
And MR _is_ wonderful, a feverish fantasy about the craziness that is falling in love. At the point where you’re so deeply in love, that you are unable to resist, hold back, and you say ‘fuck you’ to all the consequences of your actions, then the feeling is not to far away from the feeling Luhrman projects with Moulin Rouge!
Also, the cinematography is possibly the best since Bob Fosse. The camera becomes an invisible actor, constantly moving in time with the music, underlining the action flowing with the rythm of the movie, the action and the music. Luhrman is also just about the only one since Fosse died, who makes choreography for the _camera_ and not for the stage. If you check Cabaret or All that Jazz, you’ll realize that almost none of the dance numbers would’ve worked for a live audience on stage. It’s the same with MR and that’s why so many other musicals are boring. They film a stage number and try to spice it up with lots of editing, but it still doesn’t work. MR does.
I don’t know if there is a single disc of it out, but get the one with the extra disc - lots of interesting background, interviews and easter eggs.
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### Author:  [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/38 "2004-04-16T23:29:51Z")
**Love** _Moulin Rouge_.
It’s a risky, zany ride, but I thought it paid off. Anyone who has the opportunity to buy/rent the two-disc version, I recommend it highly. There’s a lot of interesting conversation about the filmmakers’ intent and logic, which I found deepend my appreciation for the flick.
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the full experience, **JohnT**.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/39 "2004-04-16T23:33:48Z")
> [@Otto](#):
>
> _Thank you._ I thought QL was great in the role but the miscasting bugged me as well. I mentioned it to some people and somehow the idea that I would know that the chance of a black prison matron in the 20s was unlikely to the point of impossibility somehow made me racist.
So if they’d hired a white actress, you would’ve missed out on (your and the previous poster’s opinion) one of the best performances of the entire film, and from an actress you might not expect it from.
Which, then, is the bigger crime?
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/40 "2004-04-16T23:50:22Z")
_Moulin Rouge_ was the first DVD I ever bought (actually, it’s the only one I’ve gone out to buy, but they were having a “buy one get the second very cheap” deal so I picked up _Crouching Tiger_ too). The plot is not terribly interesting – even _Traviata_ and _Boheme_ get tedious in the second acts – but the manipulation of music is amazing.
Add me to the list of those who loathe _Your Song_ and many of Taupin’s other lyrics; it is a great tribute to Elton’s compositional skills that he can take such dreck and make it wonderful. But then I’ve heard him sing excerpts from someone’s new oven brochure, so it’s not that surprising.
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