# Moulin Rouge - What the hell was THAT all about?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 16, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366 "2004-04-16T14:39:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/41 "2004-04-17T01:58:07Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> As for _Chicago_, it rolled off my knife. It was too campy, aren’t-we-too-cute-for-words 1920s, rather than _real_ 1920s. The hair, the makeup, the costumes—all wrong. The musical numbers (and choreography) didn’t impress me, and I thought the only performer who came off well was Queen Latifah, who was laughably miscast (a _black_ prison matron in the 1920s?). Plus, they killed the stark unhappy ending of the 1928 version and tacked on that stupid-ass “tie it all together” ending.
I don’t know that this was the intent of the screenwriter/director, but I’ve always chosen to interpret the closing musical number to the 2002 _Chicago_ as another fantasy sequence. The sight of the other characters in the audience smiling and clapping (I think you even see the judge?) puts it far enough over the top for me that I can only accept it as Roxie and Velma’s dream of success rather than reality.
Queen Latifah was amazing enough that I was willing to overlook the fact that a woman of her color was unlikely to have that job in that era. But overall I thought _Chicago_ was okay but not wonderful – I don’t have any real desire to watch it again. _Moulin Rouge!_ was IMHO far more Oscar-worthy, but _Chicago_ did have more mainstream appeal.
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### Author:  [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/42 "2004-04-17T03:21:30Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#):
>
> The other reason some people spew vitriol on that movie is Nicole Kidman. I don’t know what the woman has done wrong to be able to raise such animosity, but it must be something. I find her to be a very good actress, possibly one of the top three in her generation.
I don’t understand it either - at least not for this movie. I was always rather indifferent to Nicole Kidman _until_ I saw MR. And then I was as in love with her as Christian was.
I love this movie - it became an instant favourite of mine, definitely in the top ten list. I still remember my mouth literally dropped open when Ewan McGregor opened his mouth to sing the first time. I think I actually got the chills.
I did also like Chicago, but not with anything near the passion I feel for MR.
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### Author:  [@PsychoBabble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PsychoBabble)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/43 "2004-04-17T03:39:08Z")
I also loved Moulin Rouge. I liked it the first time I saw it in the theatre and all of the additional times after I got the dvd for Christmas. I liked Chicago too, but not nearly to the degree that I like Moulin Rouge.
Best line: “You, you can be me…And I, I’ll drink all the time” 😃
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/44 "2004-04-17T03:57:08Z")
_OhMyFreakinGod_, was that a great film!!!
I must’ve played the “Your Song” sequence at least 5 times since I first saw it… twice while watching the movie with my wife, a few more times after the film ended. Wonderful, wonderful stuff, well worth the price of admission in itself. The “Come What May” duet was beautiful and, unlike most ballads in movies, it didn’t drag the film at all. We couldn’t stop laughing during the “Like a Virgin” scene, but unlike most of you, I didn’t groove all that much to the “Roxanne” number. And yes, Ewan has a great voice… and I didn’t find Kidman’s to be as plain as some of you did.
I feel that there was a lot I missed, both because I was too focused on what I was hearing and because, well, I was seeing it for the first time. I am not at all steeped in the Broadway or musical traditions so I’m sure there was a LOT of hommages (and a lot of out-and-out copying) that went right over me, though a number of things that I heard were vaguely familiar. Were all the songs remakes, or were there some original songs written for the film?
Well, this one goes to the top of the “must be purchased” list. I have some questions about some of the phrases used, but I can’t remember them right now. I’ll watch it again and ask them here.
Oh, one question: that _was_ Ewan singing the opening and closing “There was a boy…” song, right?
And, by the way, Bernie Taupin is a _damned_ fine lyricist. **Gyrate**. 😛
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/45 "2004-04-17T04:05:54Z")
For fellow fans of Ewan, I believe he’s considering releasing an album.
He also sang in _Velvet Underground_ (with FULL FRONTAL NAKEY EWAN-I must get my hands on this movie), and in _Down with Love_.
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### Author:  [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/46 "2004-04-17T04:24:05Z")
I saw MR twice in the theater, downloaded MY version of the cast album (including a version of “Like A Virgin” that should have been on the CD instead of that “Lady Marmalade” crap) and bought the DVD, so, yes, I guess I’m a fan.
My unoriginal take on it can be boiled down to two words: it’s opera. Overblown, fantastic, high emotions and a lot of screaming. If you look at it that way, the movie makes sense. Otherwise, it’ll feel like you’ve been hit with a ball-peen hammer (especially during those first 20 minutes).
While I am very fond of Kidman – and she’s great as Satine – I can see why she can also inspire resentment. She comes across as calculating in the way she manages her career (while other actresses are equally calculating, but they manage to hide it). She comes across that way on the screen as well. Maybe it’s her thinness; it’s difficult for her to project softness or vulnerability. Maybe it’s the roles she takes (especially in “To Die For”).
I’m amazed at the praise for Ewan’s singing. He’s dangerous in the high registers. When he opens “Your Song” by belting out the line, I was afraid he’d crack the lens on the projecter. Otherwise, he was a capable singer, and when he wasn’t, there’s computer software out there capable of giving the most tone-deaf singer back on key.
But MR has some great scenes. “Like A Virgin” is a scream, especially with the retinue of butlers camping it up in back (and ending with a stream of popping champagne bubbles). The introduction of Satine was brilliant, with the men falling silent and turning skyward, and all you can see is a field of white triangles (their shirtfronts). And the Bollywood-influenced Indian number is a blast to play in the car on 11 while cruising down the Interstate.
“Chicago” was an equally startling experience, since I had absolutely no idea what to expect. I knew it had been a musical, that Fosse had done the choreography, but had no idea what to expect.
I hated it.
I can be a cynical guy at times (I was a lot worse when I was in college), but this movie was drenched in it. Money talks, justice walks. The innocent get hung and the guilty win fame and fortune. People are sheep waiting to be led by the media, and those who love are abused, abandoned and made to write bad checks.
Sheesh. You’d think I’d never heard of OJ. Or Watergate. Or the Hayes-Tilden election.
My wife loved it. Especially “He Had It Coming.” She sings that line with such gusto that sometimes, I wonder . . .
Anyway, I got over all that. That completely unredeeming cynicism was a bracing rush, but once the shock wore off, I’ve come to like more of the movie. We sat down and watched the musical numbers, and for the most part, they’re pretty good. I hate the director’s fast-cut style (especially on “He Had It Coming”), and wonder why film critics praised Gere’s soft-shoe, considering that you know he didn’t do it.
But Queen Latifah, man, that’s one hot mama. The only true singer in the entire movie. There’s no flies on that gal!
So to conclude, I like “Chicago” but I LOVE “Moulin Rouge” and I think of both movies when I hear complaints that Hollywood only pursues formulaic blockbusters.
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/47 "2004-04-17T04:27:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> He’s talking about the color of his loves eyes:
I’m not so sure about that? “So excuse me forgetting, but these things I do, you see, I’ve forgotten if they’re green or they’re blue.”
It seems to me he’s speaking of having lost sight of what he intended his actions to accomplish, or that perhaps that he’s forgotten just what it was he intended to convey by his actions.
I think the reference to her (his?) eyes don’t pertain to this part of the lyric, even though it follows closely behind.
Does anyone know if either Elton or Taupin ever explained it?
(Sorry about the hijack, JohnT.)
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/48 "2004-04-17T04:40:52Z")
Oh, and I’m also very glad to hear you loved MR and to find out that we didn’t steer you wrong. When it comes to something so subjective as a movie, you never really know for sure how someone else will enjoy it. I wasn’t expecting to hear back from you until tomorrow or Monday for some reason. Thanks for letting us know.
(And I agree, despite what I said earlier about glitches in Taupin’s lyrics, that Taupin is indeed a great lyricist. Elton himself has bemoaned lacking that talent. It’s just that sometimes I either don’t get what he’s trying to say, or I think he could have put it another way where it would have made more sense. I imagine Elton would be the first to say he wouldn’t have had a career had it not been for Bernie.)
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### Author:  [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/49 "2004-04-17T04:57:23Z")
> [@pesch](#):
>
> I hate the director’s fast-cut style (especially on “He Had It Coming”), and wonder why film critics praised Gere’s soft-shoe, considering that you know he didn’t do it. .
Do you have a source for that? The making-of on the DVD and most of the trivia sites I’ve read say he did the tapdance himself.
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### Author:  [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/50 "2004-04-17T05:01:45Z")
Based on the title, I opened the thread with a different expectation. My wife and I said the same thing as we turned it off. I also turned off _chicago_. I guess I don’t like musicals. I really really wanted to like MR because I heard so many good things about it. All I really remember is being completely confused plot-wise, and thinking that if i **did** know what was going on I’d probably lik eit. I could feel that things were supposed to be crazy funny, but I never laughed. **Bippy the Beardless** , I think that was something I felt I should have laughed at and didn’t, couldn’t. And at some point in the first 30 minutes or so, doesn’t someone stick their head through a hole in the floor? I really wanted to laugh then, but didn’t, couldn’t.
After discussing it with my wife, we both realized we also disliked Luhrman’s _Romeo+Juliet_, so I think my big problem is with Luhrman. Or perhaps the editor. If the movie could be re-edited and slowed to one cut every30 seconds, I might give it another try.
I really do wish I liked this movie.
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/51 "2004-04-17T06:59:17Z")
I’ve been in so many fights regarding **Moulin Rouge!** that when I saw the title I cringed and thought “Oh no, not again.” Imagine my delight when I find that the haters have mostly stayed away and lots of love has been poured. Thank you all!
JohnT, I’m so glad you liked it. It’ll keep getting better and better the more times you watch it. Each time you’ll see/hear things you didn’t catch before. You can get to know the characters better and cry like a baby when Christian cries out in anguish at Satine’s death (I do, anyway. I’ve seen it dozens of times and still cry and get goosebumps).
I love this movie beyond all reason. It entered my All-Time Favorites the first time I saw it. I couldn’t even begin to explain exactly why either. It’s just everything, it all comes together and _fits_ my psyche.
(I like **Chicago** too, a lot! But I adore MR)
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/52 "2004-04-17T07:18:32Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> I feel that there was a lot I missed, both because I was too focused on what I was hearing and because, well, I was seeing it for the first time. I am not at all steeped in the Broadway or musical traditions so I’m sure there was a LOT of hommages (and a lot of out-and-out copying) that went right over me, though a number of things that I heard were vaguely familiar. Were all the songs remakes, or were there some original songs written for the film?
One of the fun things about _Moulin Rouge!_ for me is playing “name that tune” or “spot that tribute”. Even if you don’t know opera or Broadway there are plenty of references to pop music and other Hollywood movies, but they all come so fast you’d need multiple viewings to catch them all.
_Almost_ all of the songs in the movie are covers/medleys, but there are a few exceptions. “One Day I’ll Fly Away” (Satine’s solo on top of the elephant) and “Come What May” (Christian and Satine’s “secret love song”) are originals. The lyrics to “The Pitch” are also original, as are segments of the other songs, like Ziddler’s rap bit and Christian’s descant in “Roxanne”.
> [@](#):
>
> -
>
> Oh, one question: that was Ewan singing the opening and closing “There was a boy…” song, right?
-
Nope. There are two performances credited, one with vocals by John Leguizamo, the other with vocals by David Bowie.
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> For fellow fans of Ewan, I believe he’s considering releasing an album.
>
> He also sang in _Velvet Underground_ (with FULL FRONTAL NAKEY EWAN-I must get my hands on this movie), and in _Down with Love_.
That’s _Velvet Goldmine_, like the David Bowie song, not “Velvet Underground” like the band with Lou Reed. 🙂 Coincidentally, I just rented that movie for the third or fourth time yesterday, I’m planning to watch it this weekend.
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### Author:  [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/53 "2004-04-17T07:22:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> _OhMyFreakinGod_, was that a great film!!!
>
> Oh, one question: that _was_ Ewan singing the opening and closing “There was a boy…” song, right?
Nope. David Bowie did both of the \*Nature Boy \* tracks. Massive Attack is also credited on the second portion (track 15 of disc 1)
Just by crazy coincidence, I’ve got both soundtrack discs playing right now, before I came here. (iTunes was in shuffle mode, and I didn’t bother to tell it otherwise.) You should try typing while \*Because We Can \* (Yes we can can can!) is rocking the desk. It really affects your fingers.
And _El Tango De Roxanne_ gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. Jacek Komen’s voice is amazing. It’s got that 5-cigars a day for 15 years quality, but…wow.
I still haven’t seen Chicago, but one of the qualities of MR is the voices. Never mind acting ability - everyone in the film has an amazing voice under strong control. Especially important in a production where the story is carried in song, everyone can e-nun-ci-ate clearly. Patter songs are worthless if the words are mushed, and there’s no mushing here - “So. De. Light. Ful. It. Will. Run. For. Fif. Ty. Years.”
Let’s see… I bought the two-disc special edition with commentaries, behind the scenes and such, and both volumes of the soundtrak. Guess I like it.
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### Author:  [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/54 "2004-04-17T07:33:56Z")
I may be getting Moulin Rouge confused with another movie, but didn’t the movie feature only one new and original song…and wasn’t it by Elton John?
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/55 "2004-04-17T12:25:15Z")
IIRC the song ‘Come What May’ was originally written for R+J but not used in that film.
Has anybody here seen BL’s Strictly Ballroom? That, to me, is far better that MR.
It has no budget at all but a lot of heart kid.
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### Author:  [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/56 "2004-04-17T12:27:45Z")
No, **Starving Artist** , I think this is a case of confusion. The device in _MR_ hinges on the audience knowing the songs, so it’s all previously released Top-40 stuff (with the exception, as someone noted earlier, of “Come What May” and a few others that were written as part of the script).
The new songs, as far as I know, are as follows:
**One Day I’ll Fly Away** —Performed by Nicole Kidman, written by Will Jennings and Joe Sample
**Come What May** —Performed by Nicole Kidman and Ewan McGregor, written by David Baerwald
**The Pitch (Spectacular, Spectacular)**—Performed by Nicole Kidman, Ewan McGregor, Jim Broadbent, Jacek Koman, John Leguizamo, Garry MacDonald, Richard Roxburgh and Matthew Whittet, written by Baz Luhrmann and Craig Pearce (with bits from “The Sound of Music” and “Your Song”)
_compiled info from the two_ MR _soundtracks_
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### Author:  [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/57 "2004-04-17T13:29:44Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> I feel that there was a lot I missed, both because I was too focused on what I was hearing and because, well, I was seeing it for the first time.
> [@Lamia](#):
>
> Even if you don’t know opera or Broadway there are plenty of references to pop music and other Hollywood movies, but they all come so fast you’d need multiple viewings to catch them all.
This is one of my criteria for getting a movie on disk. If I liked it, and there is a flurry of activity, it is a joy for me to see it a number of times to notice other wonderful elements at my leisure.
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### Author:  [@CairaJade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairaJade)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/58 "2004-04-17T13:36:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Posted by PsychoBabble
> Best line: “You, you can be me…And I, I’ll drink all the time”
Satine: “You, you will be mean…”
Christian: “No, I won’t!”
Satine: “And I, I’ll drink all the time!”
Then, when Ewan belts out “we should be lovers,” I get chills all down my spine. 😉
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/59 "2004-04-17T15:05:13Z")
I saw **Moulin Rouge** at its first theatrical release. I drive about 40 minutes to the movies - to a Reading Cinema where lots of the screens are 3 stories high. They have great cinemas with top quality sound systems and I don’t begrudge the drive. After **Moulin Rouge** finished and I left I considered buying a ticket for the session going in. If there hadn’t been a queue I probably would have and I can’t ever remember feeling like that. I have seen it several times since and it is still just as much fun.
I think that is the essence of Baz Luhrmann’s work - it is all a real hoot. This thread reminds me to watch **Moulin Rouge!** , **Romeo + Juliet** and **Strictly Ballroom** all again.
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### Author:  [@PsychoBabble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PsychoBabble)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moulin-rouge-what-the-hell-was-that-all-about/240366/60 "2004-04-17T16:47:59Z")
I stand corrected:
Satine: “You, you will be mean…”
Christian: “No, I won’t!”
Satine: “And I, I’ll drink all the time!”
But it’s still a cool line.
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