# Mount Rushmore of Pro Wrestling **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 7, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567 "2014-04-07T17:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/1 "2014-04-07T17:35:38Z")
Or, alternatively, the Mount Rushmore of Promotion X or Era Y. I think the four that would exemplify the sport as a whole is pretty inarguable – **Bruno Sammartino** , **Ric Flair** , **Hulk Hogan** , and **Steve Austin**. The only person who I think could even be \*considered \*as an alternative (or a fifth head) is **The Rock** , though that could be my age showing. I am not sure just how huge **Lou Thesz** was, though I am obviously aware of his general significance. A WW(WF)E Rushmore would actually be those four, I think, with \*\*Rock \*\*replacing **Flair**. \*\*John Cena \*\*would be the only possible argument for a replacement/fifth, I think, though he, **Shawn Michaels** , **Triple H** , and **Undertaker** would certainly be on Mount Rushmore 2. I was a WCW fan first and foremost growing up but am having a hard time figuring out who their four heads would be. \*\*Flair \*\*and \*\*Sting \*\*are the obvious two, but the remaining two are giving me some difficulty. As much as I hate to admit it, \*\*Hogan \*\*really should be the third but he always felt like an interloper to me. I really am not sure who should get the fourth spot. **Kevin Nash**? **Goldberg**? **Vader** , even? I never watched ECW, but it seems easier to pick, though that might also be because I didn’t actually watch it. Just off the top of my head, I think **Shane Douglas** , **Rob Van Dam** , **The Sandman** , and **Tommy Dreamer** would be it, though I can see a very strong argument for \*\*Raven \*\*as well. I care even less about TNA than I did ECW, so I can’t really speak on it beyond knowing that it used to be the **Jeff Jarrett** show, that it became the **Kurt Angle** show, and that **AJ Styles** is its Sting equivalent, so I imagine it would be those three plus one other. **Samoa Joe**? I honestly don’t know. I literally cannot comment on AWA beyond **Verne Gagne** , and I know even less about every other promotion beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/2 "2014-04-07T17:44:51Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > Or, alternatively, the Mount Rushmore of Promotion X or Era Y. > > I think the four that would exemplify the sport as a whole is pretty inarguable – **Bruno Sammartino** , **Ric Flair** , **Hulk Hogan** , and **Steve Austin**. The only person who I think could even be \*considered \*as an alternative (or a fifth head) is **The Rock** , though that could be my age showing. I am not sure just how huge **Lou Thesz** was, though I am obviously aware of his general significance. > > A WW(WF)E Rushmore would actually be those four, I think, with \*\*Rock \*\*replacing **Flair**. \*\*John Cena \*\*would be the only possible argument for a replacement/fifth, I think, though he, **Shawn Michaels** , **Triple H** , and **Undertaker** would certainly be on Mount Rushmore 2. > > I was a WCW fan first and foremost growing up but am having a hard time figuring out who their four heads would be. \*\*Flair \*\*and \*\*Sting \*\*are the obvious two, but the remaining two are giving me some difficulty. As much as I hate to admit it, \*\*Hogan \*\*really should be the third but he always felt like an interloper to me. I really am not sure who should get the fourth spot. **Kevin Nash**? **Goldberg**? **Vader** , even? > > I never watched ECW, but it seems easier to pick, though that might also be because I didn’t actually watch it. Just off the top of my head, I think **Shane Douglas** , **Rob Van Dam** , **The Sandman** , and **Tommy Dreamer** would be it, though I can see a very strong argument for \*\*Raven \*\*as well. > > I care even less about TNA than I did ECW, so I can’t really speak on it beyond knowing that it used to be the **Jeff Jarrett** show, that it became the **Kurt Angle** show, and that **AJ Styles** is its Sting equivalent, so I imagine it would be those three plus one other. **Samoa Joe**? I honestly don’t know. > > I literally cannot comment on AWA beyond **Verne Gagne** , and I know even less about every other promotion beyond that. I think alot of your faces are based on too current a trend - my picks would be Hulk Hogan Rick Flair Andre the Giant Jerry Lawler Since Rushmore should be more about foundations then current popularity - and even that list doesn’t include others like Handsome Jimmy Valiant Superstar Billy Graham (dude that became Govener) Goldberg was merely a splash in the pan, many of the others you list are also arguably popular - but way to ‘new’ in the business to have left a real mark. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/3 "2014-04-07T18:02:17Z")
You’ve got to make room somewhere up there for [Gorgeous George](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgeous_George). ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/4 "2014-04-07T18:03:10Z")
> [@simster](#): > > (dude that became Govener) Jesse “The Body” Ventura Jerry Blackwell at 474 lb could get horizontal in the air in a standing dropkick. the tag team of Reginald ‘The Crusher’ Lisowski and William ‘Dick the Bruiser’ Afflis. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/5 "2014-04-07T18:04:28Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I think alot of your faces are based on too current a trend - my picks would be > > Hulk Hogan > Rick Flair > Andre the Giant > Jerry Lawler > > Since Rushmore should be more about foundations then current popularity - and even that list doesn’t include others like > > Handsome Jimmy Valiant > Superstar Billy Graham > (dude that became Govener) > > Goldberg was merely a splash in the pan, many of the others you list are also arguably popular - but way to ‘new’ in the business to have left a real mark. Only the first paragraph was about wrestling as a whole, and didn’t include any current performers. They also came from three different eras of wrestling, none of which are the current one. The other paragraphs were mostly about defunct promotions so “current” popularity doesn’t factor into it at all. How can Tommy Dreamer, a seventh rate performer in a third rate promotion that died fourteen years ago, being included on that same promotion’s Mount Rushmore be an argument for current popularity? Also, Goldberg was only popular for a couple years but he was what defined WCW from '97 to '99, and is the only homegrown talent beyond Sting to gain any notoriety outside of the promotion. Everyone else was already established or would go elsewhere to earn their legacy. It was my preferred promotion, but it was definitely the minor leagues and his brief (mega) popularity is enough to make him a consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/6 "2014-04-07T18:05:17Z")
Bobo Brazil Haystack Calhoun ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/7 "2014-04-07T18:22:29Z")
The Mount should be: Andre the Giant Hornswaggle Andre the Giant Screech ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/8 "2014-04-07T18:31:15Z")
Gorgeous George - for innovation Bruno Sammartino - popularity Andre the Giant - for size Dusty Rhodes - for innovation Plenty of others would qualify also, there really aren’t just four that stand above and beyond all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/9 "2014-04-07T18:50:10Z")
Gorgeous George and Bruno Sammartino wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/10 "2014-04-07T18:53:19Z")
**Overall** Lou Thesz Andre the Giant Gorgeous George Hulk Hogan **WWWF/WWF/WWE** Bruno Sammartino Vincent Kennedy McMahon Hulk Hogan Stone Cold Steve Austin \*\* JCP/NWA\*\*\* Ric Flair Johnny Valentine Dusty Rhodes Harley Race \*Not the same entity, but considered together for convenience **Memphis** Jackie Fargo Jerry Jarrett Jerry Lawler Lance Russell **Mid-South/UWF** Junkyard Dog Ted Dibiase Ernie Ladd Bill Watts **Managers** Bobby Heenan Gary Hart Jim Cornette Skandar Akbar **Tag Teams** The Fabulous Kangaroos The Andersons (Gene & Ole–with footnotes for Lars and Arn) The Road Warriors The Freebirds (Michael, Terry, & Buddy–with a footnote for Jimmy Garvin) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/11 "2014-04-07T18:53:34Z")
As a sport-like topic, I’m moving this to the Game Room, from Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/12 "2014-04-07T19:15:45Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > As a sport-like topic, I’m moving this to the Game Room, from Cafe Society. Sports, not entertainment? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/13 "2014-04-07T19:16:30Z")
As a huge Ric Flair fan (though his current antics are making a mockery of his past achievements), now can you not include his inspiration, the original Nature Boy, Buddy Roberts? No way Lawler, Ventura, or Blackwell would be on that before Roberts. And as someone who popped big for Dreamer every time he visited the Madhouse of Extreme (the Elk’s Lodge in Queens, NY), he is not even an honorable mention and he would probably say the same. You can’t do Mount Rushmore and highlight mostly the 80s forward. You’ve got to look back and try to figure out the building blocks. Leaving out the Lou Theszs, Stu Harts, Funks, Roberts, and so many more names kills the concept - it would be like leaving out Washington and Jefferson because they were too far in the past. The harder part, harder than choosing the presidents on Rushmore, is to decide which one represents the earliest era. There were a lot more wrestlers than presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/14 "2014-04-07T20:11:03Z")
My personal Mount Rushmore of florida wrestling which is what I grew up with. Eddie Graham Dusty Rhodes Andre the Giant Kevin Sullivan with one man watching over the mountain telling us what is going on. Gordon Solie - the best there ever was I would change it up a bit if I were considering wrestling as a whole but mainly it would be to replace Sullivan with Flair. So, it’s not really fair to list Andre as a florida wresler and not Flair but Andre is an icon and one of my favorites whenever he performed in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/15 "2014-04-07T20:56:47Z")
Overall: Gorgeous George Andre the Giant Hulk Hogan Ric Flair WWE: Hulk Hogan Steve Austin John Cena the fourth one is tough; nobody is really an “era” wrestler like the other three have become (no, I am not including Shawn Michaels - certainly not before Bret Hart). If it’s not limited to wrestlers, then Vince McMahon Jr. himself. If it _has to_ choose a wrestler: The Rock. NWA/WCW Ric Flair Dusty Rhodes Magnum T.A. Ron Simmons (the first black WCW World Champion - this was quite surprising, considering that NWA became primarily based in the south once the two main California promotions closed in the early 1980s, so a black champion was pretty much out of the question) Names I wish I could add, but just couldn’t justify it on any of the lists if they were limited to four (although if the WCW/NWA list could have five, I would put these two on ahead of Simmons): Road Warrior Animal Road Warrior Hawk ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/16 "2014-04-07T20:59:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sports, not entertainment? As I noted, > [@Ellen Cherry](#): > > As a sport-like topic … ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/17 "2014-04-07T22:18:03Z")
Let’s face it - any actual monument to the history of wrestling is likely to be paid primarily by Vince, and he’s not carving a bunch of giant faces into a mountain without including his own! ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/18 "2014-04-07T23:09:52Z")
Based on in-ring talent: HBK, Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, …possibly Bryan or Cesaro in the long distant future. Draws: Sammartino, Hogan, Austin, Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/19 "2014-04-07T23:27:53Z")
I would say Starman, The Great Puma, and King Slender. The fourth is hard, but I’d give the nod to The Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567/20 "2014-04-07T23:28:08Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Let’s face it - any actual monument to the history of wrestling is likely to be paid primarily by Vince, and he’s not carving a bunch of giant faces into a mountain without including his own! In fairness, he’s probably had at least as much influence as anybody. For good or ill, and it’s mostly ill in my book, he’s largely responsible for pro wrestling as it exists today. He killed the territories, built a regional promotion into the most dominant company in the world, and reshaped the business to fit his vision. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-rushmore-of-pro-wrestling/685567.md?page=2)