# Mount St. Mary’s Univ. President: Students Not Cuddly Bunnies. You Just Have to Drown the Bunnies. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681 "2016-02-10T04:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/1 "2016-02-10T04:14:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Professors from universities across the country — from Stanford to North Carolina Central to the University of Nebraska to Harvard — signed a petition Tuesday calling on the Mount St. Mary’s University administration to reinstate professors who had been fired… > > The controversy began months ago, when the provost and some professors had raised concerns when the president asked for a list of students unlikely to succeed in college several weeks into the school year; one said it was too early to separate those who would do well from those likely to drop out. Simon Newman, the president, told professors, “there will be some collateral damage.” > > Newman also said, as first reported by the student newspaper the Mountain Echo and independently confirmed by The Washington Post, that “this is hard for you because you think of the students as cuddly bunnies, but you can’t. You just have to drown the bunnies … put a Glock to their heads.”… > > On Monday, many were shocked by the abrupt termination of a tenured professor who had objected to the president’s policies, and a law professor and former trustee who had been the adviser of the Mountain Echo, the student paper that published a special edition about the president’s student retention plan… [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/02/09/the-controversy-at-mount-st-marys-goes-national-after-professors-are-fired/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/02/09/the-controversy-at-mount-st-marys-goes-national-after-professors-are-fired/) Well at least these professors weren’t getting fired for disputing esoteric points of Catholic doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/2 "2016-02-10T04:40:04Z")
I’m an atheist, not a Catholic, but I just want to say that I am firmly against drowning bunnies. Unless, you know, the bunny was a real dick or something. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/3 "2016-02-10T04:50:12Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I’m an atheist, not a Catholic, but I just want to say that I am firmly against drowning bunnies. > > Unless, you know, the bunny was a real dick or something. Or if the bunny has nasty, big, pointy teeth… [Makes fangs with his fingers and holds them in front of his mouth] ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/4 "2016-02-10T05:15:15Z")
I would imagine that the tenured profs will have a cause of action against the uni. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/5 "2016-02-10T05:23:22Z")
Maybe the protesting professors could get Jerry Seinfeld to agree to be the official “face” of their protest. _ **"NEWMAN!!!"** _ ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/6 "2016-02-10T05:46:00Z")
“I can still tend the rabbits, George? I didn’t mean no harm, George." ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/7 "2016-02-10T06:17:14Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/8 "2016-02-10T06:37:22Z")
Um, what? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/9 "2016-02-10T14:21:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Um, what? Kill the wabbit! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/10 "2016-02-10T14:29:48Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Kill the wabbit! Elmer: I’m going to kill the wabbit! Bugs: O mighty warrior, 'twill be quite a task How will you do it, might I inquire to ask? E: I will do it with my Gwock and Magic Dwowning Pool B: Gwock and Magic Dwowning Pool? E: Gwock and Magic Dwowning Pool. B: Gwock? E: Gwock! B (spoken, disparagingly): Gwock. E: Yes, Gwock, and I’ll give you a sample! (exit Bugs at warp speed) E (spoken): That was the wabbit! Liberties taken. Lyrics quoted from here: [http://web.mit.edu/minidev/lib/opera](http://web.mit.edu/minidev/lib/opera) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/11 "2016-02-10T14:30:33Z")
If the President wanted to know which students would not have succeeded, he could have used their grades as a sign. To use one of my favorite lines from Cuckoo’s Nest: “All he had to do was wait.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/12 "2016-02-10T14:47:58Z")
They put a corporate goon in charge of the school and were surprised when he ran it like a for-profit corporation? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/13 "2016-02-10T15:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The controversy began months ago, when the provost and some professors had raised concerns when the president asked for a list of students unlikely to succeed in college several weeks into the school year; one said it was too early to separate those who would do well from those likely to drop out. Simon Newman, the president, told professors, “there will be some collateral damage.” Unbelievably, it’s actually even worse than this summary implies: the incoming freshmen were given a survey that attempted to identify students suffering from issues such as depression or poor self-image, and told there were no wrong answers. Unbeknownst to the students, Newman then used the survey results to identify students who should be “encouraged” to drop out early because they were unlikely to succeed (if they withdrew before a certain date, they didn’t count in the university’s retention figures). To the best of my knowledge, these were not necessarily students who were actually _doing poorly in their classes_; it was all based on a deceitful attempt at amateur psychological profiling. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/14 "2016-02-10T15:35:03Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Unbelievably, it’s actually even worse than this summary implies: the incoming freshmen were given a survey that attempted to identify students suffering from issues such as depression or poor self-image, and told there were no wrong answers. Unbeknownst to the students, Newman then used the survey results to identify students who should be “encouraged” to drop out early because they were unlikely to succeed (if they withdrew before a certain date, they didn’t count in the university’s retention figures). To the best of my knowledge, these were not necessarily students who were actually _doing poorly in their classes_; it was all based on a deceitful attempt at amateur psychological profiling. That parenthetical explanation makes it sound like a case of straight-up fraud in addition to everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/15 "2016-02-10T15:37:05Z")
It’s not fraud per se. The Department of Education doesn’t care about your retention figures for students that don’t pay tuition (and the school was going to refund tuition for any student who dropped out under the program). It’s fucking evil to take a psychological survey like that and not keep the results a secret, though. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/16 "2016-02-10T15:45:27Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Or if the bunny has nasty, big, pointy teeth… > > [Makes fangs with his fingers and holds them in front of his mouth] There’s General Woundwort. I saw this in the _Post_ today and thought WTF? The president sounds like a spiteful dick. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/17 "2016-02-10T16:06:39Z")
What’s the Catholic doctrine reference? Is that Wheaton (which is not Catholic) or a news story I missed? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/18 "2016-02-10T16:09:46Z")
Wheaton. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/19 "2016-02-10T19:16:16Z")
Mount St. Mary’s actions make a mockery of tenure. The whole point of tenure to give professors the freedom to speak their minds without fear of retaliation. Firing tenured faculty for “disloyalty” is completely contrary to the intellectual mission of the university. (My wife is a tenured professor at UCLA and a signatory of the petition mentioned by the OP.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681/20 "2016-02-10T19:27:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If the President wanted to know which students would not have succeeded, he could have used their grades as a sign. To use one of my favorite lines from Cuckoo’s Nest: > “All he had to do was wait.” Per the article, waiting would mean he couldn’t disenroll the students before the deadline to count them as enrolled in the first place. The entire point of the exercise was to make his retention v. dropout rate look better. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mount-st-mary-s-univ-president-students-not-cuddly-bunnies-you-just-have-to-drown-the-bunnies/745681.md?page=2)