# Mountain lion with deformity **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087 "2016-01-24T16:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/1 "2016-01-24T16:12:27Z")
Recently a mountain lion with teeth growing out of his head has been seen on the internet. All kinds of theories as to what could have happened. It appears to me that the lower jaw on the mountain lion is also deformed. Could this have resulted simply from a severe fetal injury that was not fatal? I don’t have a link but it is easy to find for those who have not seen it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/2 "2016-01-24T16:20:34Z")
[This photo](http://cdn.net.outdoorhub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/01/outdoorhub-photos-idaho-hunter-shoots-mountain-lion-with-bizarre-deformity-2016-01-08_14-39-49-880x561.png), the teeth are clearly in front of the ear. [This photo](http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/idahostatejournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/a4/fa46a1f8-29ac-5408-ac54-0d21cf2c2260/568dc360421ee.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C900), the teeth are in the middle of the head. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/3 "2016-01-24T16:27:53Z")
Very likely a partially reabsorbed conjoined twin. This is probably the most frequent cause of fragmentary appendages carried by animals. In a side show, I have seen cows and sheep with additional legs (non-functional), probably of this kind of origin. Here’s an example in a [fawn](http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/4148878_f260.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/4 "2016-01-24T16:35:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Very likely a partially reabsorbed conjoined twin. This is probably the most frequent cause of fragmentary appendages carried by animals. In a side show, I have seen cows and sheep with additional legs (non-functional), probably of this kind of origin. Here’s an example in a [fawn](http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/4148878_f260.jpg). Does the animals lower jaw also appear malformed? Like it is missing the piece that is now sitting on top of its head? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/5 "2016-01-24T16:49:33Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Does the animals lower jaw also appear malformed? Like it is missing the piece that is now sitting on top of its head? I don’t see any canines in the lower jaw, but it otherwise appears normal. It does not appear to me to be translocated from the lower jaw. From [an article](http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/idaho-fish-and-game-says-deformed-mountain-lion-photo-is-not-a-fake/) about it: > [@](#): > > But the biologists do have some theories. > > Jackson said the mass of teeth, hair and whiskers could be a conjoined twin that stopped developing and embedded itself on the lion while in the womb. > > Another theory, which officials say is more likely, is that the growth is a teratoma — a rare tumor that contains extremities like teeth and hair. > > [EastIdahoNews.com](http://EastIdahoNews.com) reached out to the Wildlife Health Forensic Laboratory in Boise for more information about the condition. > > The state wildlife veterinarian was unavailable, but laboratory staffers told [EastIdahoNews.com](http://EastIdahoNews.com) that when animals are developing in utero, an identical twin can fuse to a body and create a mass of cells. That mass of cells — the teratoma — can sometimes develop teeth, hair, bone and skin. As animals get older, the mass typically gets larger. In the last paragraph they seem to be conflating two separate phenomena: [teratomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma), which originate from an individual’s own tissues, with partial [parasitic twins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_twin), which are of separate embryonic origin. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/6 "2016-01-24T23:28:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Very likely a partially reabsorbed conjoined twin. This is probably the most frequent cause of fragmentary appendages carried by animals. In a side show, I have seen cows and sheep with additional legs (non-functional), probably of this kind of origin. Here’s an example in a [fawn](http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/4148878_f260.jpg). [And, of course, it happens in humans, too.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/paul-mukisa-8-limbs_n_5805790.html) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/7 "2016-01-24T23:56:35Z")
This was a big story a few weeks ago when it broke. We all agreed that he probably had nothing else wrong with him, or else his mother wouldn’t have cared for him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/8 "2016-01-25T00:20:12Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > We all agreed that he probably had nothing else wrong with him, or else his mother wouldn’t have cared for him. Unlikely. You think if he was missing a tail that his mother would abandon him? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/9 "2016-01-25T00:31:19Z")
Human with extra mouth full of teeth. [https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=man+two+faces&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002](https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=man+two+faces&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/10 "2016-01-25T04:23:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Unlikely. You think if he was missing a tail that his mother would abandon him? Wild animals will abandon, or even outright kill, sickly young. Even domesticated animals do this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/11 "2016-01-25T04:45:40Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Wild animals will abandon, or even outright kill, sickly young. Even domesticated animals do this. That’s not at al the same as what you said earlier, which was incorrect. It would be easier to just admit the mistake and move on. Remember, this forum is about factual answers to questions. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/12 "2016-01-25T05:25:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not at al the same as what you said earlier, which was incorrect. It would be easier to just admit the mistake and move on. Remember, this forum is about factual answers to questions. John is right, animals do not always kill deformed young, they will even raise unrelated species at times. Sometimes they kill and eat healthy off spring, we don’t always know why they do what they do. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/13 "2016-01-25T05:50:31Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This was a big story a few weeks ago when it broke. We all agreed that he probably had nothing else wrong with him, or else his mother wouldn’t have cared for him. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Wild animals will abandon, or even outright kill, sickly young. Even domesticated animals do this. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s not at al the same as what you said earlier, which was incorrect. It would be easier to just admit the mistake and move on. Remember, this forum is about factual answers to questions. I don’t see what you think is the significant difference between **nearwildheaven** ’s two statements. Animals frequently do abandon abnormal or diseased offspring (not always, but often enough that ‘probably’ is a factually valid statement). If the animal had truly had a gross malformation of the jaw in addition to the teeth on his forehead, as hypothesized earlier in this thread, it is unlikely he would have received maternal care. What “mistake” are you asking him to admit? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/14 "2016-01-25T06:02:45Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I don’t see what you think is the significant difference between **nearwildheaven** ’s two statements. Animals frequently do abandon abnormal or diseased offspring (not always, but often enough that ‘probably’ is a factually valid statement). If the animal had truly had a gross malformation of the jaw in addition to the teeth on his forehead, as hypothesized earlier in this thread, it is unlikely he would have received maternal care. What “mistake” are you asking him to admit? The first statement was absolute. One more problem, and the mother would abandon. The second statement was about a possibility. If the second was intended to be absolute, then it, too, was factually incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/15 "2016-01-25T06:16:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The first statement was absolute. One more problem, and the mother would abandon. The second statement was about a possibility. If the second was intended to be absolute, then it, too, was factually incorrect. The first statement included the word ‘probably.’ When did that start making something absolute? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/16 "2016-01-25T15:56:20Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > The first statement included the word ‘probably.’ When did that start making something absolute? The “probably” did not apply to the mother’s care, but to the existence of some other defect. Go back and read the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/17 "2016-01-25T16:28:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The “probably” did not apply to the mother’s care, but to the existence of some other defect. Go back and read the sentence. I have read the sentence, and I think you are trying to read into it something that is not there (or not reading into it that which is logically implied). The cub survived to adulthood, so obviously he received maternal care. The existence of that care is as close to established fact as is possible with a wild animal reared outside human observation, and there can no longer be any “probably” about it. With maternal care established, then the two possibilities are that he did or did not have anything else wrong (such as the hypothesized translocated lower jaw). On the balance of probabilities, he did not… “We all agreed that he probably had nothing else wrong with him, or else his mother wouldn’t have cared for him” includes by implication the negation that “it is possible but improbable that he had another major deformity and his mother cared for him anyway.” How are you reading it that this negation is not included, or what would be the “possible but improbable” flipside? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/18 "2016-01-25T16:34:20Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I have read the sentence, and I think you are trying to read into it something that is not there (or not reading into it that which is logically implied). > > The cub survived to adulthood, so obviously he received maternal care. The existence of that care is as close to established fact as is possible with a wild animal reared outside human observation, and there can no longer be any “probably” about it. With maternal care established, then the two possibilities are that he did or did not have anything else wrong (such as the hypothesized translocated lower jaw). On the balance of probabilities, he did not… > > “We all agreed that he probably had nothing else wrong with him, or else his mother wouldn’t have cared for him” includes by implication the negation that “it is possible but improbable that he had another major deformity and his mother cared for him anyway.” > > How are you reading it that this negation is not included, or what would be the “possible but improbable” flipside? If you want to read it that way, go ahead. I’m confident most people would agree with my interpretation, and I’m not really interested in further debate. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/19 "2016-01-25T16:56:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you want to read it that way, go ahead. I’m confident most people would agree with my interpretation, and I’m not really interested in further debate. I’m not interested in debating it–I’m trying to figure out what your interpretation IS. I’m trying to improve my ability to read and write English, which means asking questions when I don’t understand, and I don’t understand how you are reading the given sentence to include the mistake you want him to admit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087/20 "2016-01-25T18:32:34Z")
I agree with you: because of the nature of the statement, the probably modifies _both_ the fact at issue and the result. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mountain-lion-with-deformity/744087.md?page=2)