# MoveOn, Hitler and Bush: Hooo, boy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071 "2004-01-06T20:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/181 "2004-01-10T01:20:47Z")
A lot of us would look simply stunning in elephant hide sandals. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/182 "2004-01-10T01:33:48Z")
On the subject of Godwinization, does Rush Limbaugh’s application of the term “feminazi” to leading democratic women such as Hillary Clinton qualify as “the Republicans” making Hitler comparisons to the Clintons? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/183 "2004-01-10T04:48:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Is there anything you can see which would indicate that he is worthy of being considered a spokesman for the mainstream “Dems”? \*\* You mean besides the fact that he’s been a main speaker at major Democratic functions? Or besides the fact that he’s in bed with the Democrats for 90 million dollars has close ties to the Clintons and indeed is a major backer of Hillary Clinton’s Senate campaign? > [@](#): > > Cause when you say there is noise coming from some sort of group and then hold up someone who could, at best, be considered fringe in that group, that doesn’t really implicate the group now does it? Fringe? I guess if you consider Bill Hillary and Al fringe than Soros must be as well. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/184 "2004-01-10T04:49:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*Without wishing to detract at all from the complete idiocy of insisting that Soros is not a Democrat, which can only be possible in a universe where Richard Scaife is “not a Republican,” George Soros is innocent of the BS French insider trading charges, conviction notwithstanding, and the Pound needed killin’. \*\* While it’s true that “convicted by the French” may be considered a badge of honor in some circles, “needed Killin” isn’t a valid defense outside of Texas borders. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/185 "2004-01-10T04:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*So, on **Scylla** list of the numerous Democrats who have been making Nazi type comparisons to GeeDubya we got: > > Robert Byrd - granted (Bless his heart, he means well…) > George Soros - under debate, matter of defintion > A couple of quotes from Democrats from _years_ back > Some poster from a message board from God only knows > And of course, that well known spokesman for the Democratic party, Mr. Jonah Goldfarb of _National Review Online_ > > Tell you what, **Scylla** If you cross your heart and pinky promise that you honestly and truly believe that the cites you threw up on the screen actually prove something…well, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 'Cause from here it looks like a pretty slipshod effort, kind of thing you foist off on someone you figure ain’t too bright. Like you can piss on my shoes and tell me its raining. > > As to your question? You gotta be kidding, try to hand me a choice like that? You seriously believe _anybody_ here is that fuckin’ brain dead? > > What do I think happened? You heard this little snippet of garbage floating around, say, oh, I don’t know, take a wild guess…right wing radio? About how all those Democrats are comparing Bush to Hitler. Probably right before the witty remarks about Hollywood elites and Algore. > > And you believed it without question, without reflection, well, of course its true. And when called upon, you had the very uncomfortabe realization that, just like me, you couldn’t actually recall any Democrats saying it! But you knew it was true because of course it was true! Everyone knows Democrats are like that! > > As Eugene V. Debs is my witness, that’s the truth, that’s what I think. See, I listen to Democrats a lot, you _know_ I keep up with the news and hadn’t heard about all these Democrats making Nazi slurs on GeeDubya. But you claim that you have. But forced to examine that belief, and offer cites to substantiate it…you got diddly squat. Hell, at least three of those were reprints of the same Jonah Goldfarb opinion piece reprinted in different papers! > > Do _you_ really believe that those cites substantiate your claim to a solid degree? Did you even _read_ any of them? \*\* I quote this in it’s entirety because I guess this is what I get when I ask for a straight answer to a simple question. I want a straight answer elucidator. A yes or no will do fine. I’ll ask again. When you asked me for my cite was it because you believed Democrats had **not** compared Bush to Hitler? Simple question. Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/186 "2004-01-10T05:14:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RedFury \* > \*\*While we’re on the subject, I’d like to read the onboard Bushbot’s opinion on the numerous Saddam-is-the-new-Hitler comparisons made while marketing the invasion. > > For instance: > > [Saddam the new Hitler, Bush tells Europeans](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/21/1037697805270.html) > > [Hitler’s disciple in Baghdag – by Rebublican Senators Stevens and Warner](http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/02101500.htm) > > I suppose Godwin’s Law doesn’t apply when _they_ use it to scare the living shit out of the sheepl…er, _patriots_. Of course, the fact that the comparison is even weaker than the one that has rabid Bushbots such as spinmeister **Scylla** in a lather is of no consequence. \*\* It’s more like when you attempt genocide, Godwin’s law no longer applies because the comparison is apropriate. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/187 "2004-01-10T12:22:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It’s more like when you attempt genocide, Godwin’s law no longer applies because the comparison is apropriate. \*\* Ah yes, no doubt you mean the old, **US sponsored** Saddam had all the makings of a genocidal maniac when you were helping him put down a Kurdish uprising and fighting those really eeeeeeeeeeevil Iranians. But hey! guess he was a _good_ maniac back then. Mine mine, how the world turns – even with the same players on the stage. Because you are _obviously_ not speaking of the tin-pot Third World dictator with the broken down, obsolete military, that put up about as much resistance to the invasion of your Imperial Forces as a hooker to a C-note. Never mind that not one – not _a one_ – of his neighbours felt the slightest fear that Mr Evildoer would shit outside the pot again after his crushing defeat in GW-I. Ya know, that little “misunderstanding” when he was arguably given tacit approval by the George-I Administration to invade Kuwait. Boy did _that_ cost him. What with draconian sanctions, rigorous inspections and ten years of almost constant bombardment care of the dubiously legal no-fly zones, to attempt a Hitler comparison is beyond ludicrous. I mean, come on! I’m willing to concede that both guys wore a moustache and were kind of paunchy, but that’s were I draw the line. Tell you what, let’s put an end to this silly topic. How about we agree to let your side – The Bushbot Patriots – call Saddam, “Pocket Hitler,” and you let us – The America Haters – call Dubya, “Fratboy Adolf,” and call it a draw? Besides, don’t you have some mean, big, bad-ass black guy you need to beat up right about now? Wouldn’t wanna keep you bogged down here – entertaining as I find the self-righteous indignation and built-in grandiosity with which you pepper your posts – when there’s evil lurking out there and you just The Man to take care of it. But please, please, _do_ pace yourself. No need to give us, or your loved ones, a new ticker-scare. One bad guy at a time ought to do it. Cape optional. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/188 "2004-01-10T12:48:52Z")
**Scylla** , when you provided those “cites” (Madeline Kane’s is great; thanks), did you really believe “The Democrats” _had_ compared Bush to Hitler? What, you _did_? Well, now you know better. The next question is: Why did you believe it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/189 "2004-01-10T15:06:34Z")
I answered your question, **Scylla**. Or, at least, I answered the most recent incarnation of the question, the one that is not an “excluded middle”, the one that isn’t phrased “Are you stupid or merely an asshole?” I asked the question, just as I said, because I listen to Democrats with considerable frequency, I keep up on the news. I don’t recall oodles of Democrats making Hitleresque allusions to the Bushiviks. Neither did you, as it becomes increasingly apparent. You latched on to some floating bit of garbage (Rush, perhaps?) that fit right in with your prejudices and you accepted it as gospel. Well, of course, the Dems are comparing Bush to Hitler, everybody knows what the Dems are like. When confronted with it, you had to face the unappealing probability that you were full of shit. Figuring I’m too stupid to make my own oatmeal, you dashed a ladle full of horsepucky onto the screen, alleging them as “cites” proving your assertion. Not surprisingly, they do no such thing. Which leaves you in the laughable position of desperately trying to prove that Soros is a major Dem, worthy of being considered a spokesman. Such assertion is open to question. (I note that you have the good sense not to try to assert that an opinion piece by Jonah Goldfarb of _National Review Online_ qualifies as a statement by Democrats. Commendable. A stumble in the right direction…) Your cites, as has been shown, are the utterest horseshit. I frankly doubt you took the trouble to read them. I suppose you expected I wouldn’t either. Wrong again, buckaroo. Your attempt to inflate the concept “sponsor” into total moral responsibility is like trying to inflate a Japanese condom into a dirigible, and floats about as well. On behalf of Perfidious Liars[sup]TM[/sup] everywhere, I thank you once again for demonstrating the intellectual vacuity and moral bankruptcy of our opposition! What would we do without you? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/190 "2004-01-10T15:12:35Z")
'Lucidator: I’m specifically asking for a “straight answer.” A “Yes.” or a “no.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/191 "2004-01-10T15:29:31Z")
Did you actually read that pile of crap you posted as cites? Do you really think Jonah Goldfarb qualifies as a Democratic spokesman? Do you really believe that a _reprint_ of the same opinion piece qualifies as a seperate cite? Do you understand the concept “excluded middle”, and why it is a fallacy? Has your wife stopped beating you? Being the lone male in a house of three females, have you begun building extra bathrooms, or do you plan to pee on a tree in the back yard for the next twenty years or so? Simple questions, all. Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/192 "2004-01-10T15:39:17Z")
Does anyone expect to change anyone’s vote? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/193 "2004-01-10T15:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*When confronted with it, you had to face the unappealing probability that you were full of shit. No. What I said to my self is “Elucidator really isn’t this stupid is he? Surely he doesn’t think that Democrats **aren’t** comparing Bush et al to Hitler. Surely he is just asking for cites for irritation value. He does seem to enjoy being irritating.” > [@](#): > > Figuring I’m too stupid to make my own oatmeal, you dashed a ladle full of horsepucky onto the screen, alleging them as “cites” proving your assertion. Not surprisingly, they do no such thing. Apparently you have continued to push after the Qtip encountered resistance. This assertion of yours is stupid in ways that I would not apply to oatmeal. My cites contain information about Robert Byrd making comparisons, Soros, Vanity Fair, The Free Press, the Democratic Underground, David Lindorf and Sheldon Wolin all doing the same. Some of my links you can just click and look at the pictures. No reading required. You are even showing off one of the cites making such comparisons in other threads because you like it so much. I can draw but two possible conclusions from your actions. Either a remarkable lack of intelligence is required to believe as you do, or a remarkable lack of honesty. I’m trying to figure out which. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/194 "2004-01-10T15:41:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scylla_ > \*\*So let me ask you straight out. Did you ask for the cite because you are this stupid, or did you ask for it just to fuck with me? > > Straight answer please.\*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scylla_ > \*\*Hi Elucidator: > > Are you going to answer my question?\*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scylla_ > **It’s really a very simple question and I would sincerely appreciate your answering it for me, because I’d like to know.** > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scylla_ > \*\*I quote this in it’s entirety because I guess this is what I get when I ask for a straight answer to a simple question. > > I want a straight answer elucidator. A yes or no will do fine. I’ll ask again. > > Simple question. Yes or no.\*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scylla_ > \*\*'Lucidator: > > I’m specifically asking for a “straight answer.” A “Yes.” or a “no.”\*\* You’re asking a question that isn’t amenable to a “yes” or “no” answer. Look at it: “Did you ask for the cite because you are this stupid, or did you ask for it just to fuck with me?” An answer of “yes” or “no” wouldn’t mean a fucking thing. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/195 "2004-01-10T15:44:20Z")
Elucidator: When you asked me for my cite was it because you believed Democrats had not compared Bush to Hitler? Simple question. Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/196 "2004-01-10T16:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Did you actually read that pile of crap you posted as cites? \*\* No. I yanked it off of google with a cursory scan. I believe I said as much when I posted it. > [@](#): > > Do you really think Jonah Goldfarb qualifies as a Democratic spokesman? No. I don’t think that. > [@](#): > > Do you really believe that a _reprint_ of the same opinion piece qualifies as a seperate cite? No > [@](#): > > Do you understand the concept “excluded middle”, and why it is a fallacy? I think so. > [@](#): > > Has your wife stopped beating you? No. > [@](#): > > Being the lone male in a house of three females, have you begun building extra bathrooms, or do you plan to pee on a tree in the back yard for the next twenty years or so? We have four bathrooms, so the trees are safe. > [@](#): > > Simple questions, all. Yes or no? \*\* There. I’ve answered all your questions. Now courtesy dictates that without further ado, you give my simple yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/197 "2004-01-10T16:23:45Z")
I’m sorry, do you have your Certificate of SDMB Authority with you? You know, the one that authorizes you to make and enforce rules of evidence, courtesy and behavior? I answered your question _twice_, with far more courtesy than the question deserved. You have admitted that I was essentially right, that your offering of “cites” was pure bluster, with no honest intention whatsoever, merely a splatter of brown goo onto the screen. And if, as you say, Mr. Goldfarb by no stretch can be considered a “Democrat” whats he doing on the list? Do you need some instruction as to “cites”? How to find and correctly use them? What they can, and cannot, prove? No, you’re caught in your own trap. A kindly, more gentle soul would release the spring, and let you hobble back to your lair. (Do weasels have lairs? Or dens?) I’d prefer to spread out a picnic lunch and watch you gnaw your leg off. I’ll give you this— you are one _entertaining_ sumbitch! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/198 "2004-01-10T16:27:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*I answered your question _twice_, \*\* I must have missed it. When I asked " When you asked me for my cite was it because you believed Democrats had not compared Bush to Hitler?" did you answer yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/199 "2004-01-10T16:33:04Z")
Holes. Weasels have holes. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/200 "2004-01-10T16:53:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* You have admitted that I was essentially right, that your offering of “cites” was pure bluster, with no honest intention whatsoever, merely a splatter of brown goo onto the screen. I said I yanked it off off of google with a cursory scan. I think it does a fine job of establishing that some Democrats have likened Hitler and Bush, which was what was required. > [@](#): > > And if, as you say, Mr. Goldfarb by no stretch can be considered a “Democrat” whats he doing on the list? Because he talks about Democrats comparing Bush to Hitler, and, IIRC gives examples such as Linodrff, Sheldon, VF, the Democratic underground, Senator Byrd. Seeing as you wanted cites to support that Democrats were making such comparisons, and Goldfarb’s topic was precisely that, I thought It germaine. How was I to know that you’d get confused and not understand the difference between, talking about and talking on behalf of. This kind of thing is why I’m having problems with your theory that you’re smarter than oatmeal. > [@](#): > > No, you’re caught in your own trap. Arguing with a man who claims to be able to outsmart breakfast cereal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=11)