# MoveOn, Hitler and Bush: Hooo, boy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071 "2004-01-06T20:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/201 "2004-01-10T16:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\* Is there anything you can see which would indicate that he is worthy of being considered a spokesman for the mainstream “Dems”? \*\* I was just going to let this dangle, because at this point anyone who doesn’t identify Soros as a Democrat is too stupid to live among others and ought to be institutionalized for his own protection. But there are some unasked questions within the asked one which might bring this thread back to the OP (remember that?). So: Is he a “spokesman” for “mainstream ‘Dems’?” Irrelevant – that wasn’t the question asked or the hijack being argued, or whatever. He is a “Dem.” There’s no question about that, and that’s what **Scylla** asserted. I have no horse in the race whether enough “Dems” have compared the Bush administration to Nazi Germany to support **Scylla** ’s assertion, I simply asserted (correctly) that Soros is in fact a “Dem” by any reasonable definition of the world and that therefore referring to him as one is not, as **minty** said, “too stupid for words;” in fact, asserting otherwise is too stupid for words and much like calling Richard Scaife “not a Republican”. And as I said, the German guy – not so much a Democrat. But that was all a hijack. The OP was about [moveon.org](http://moveon.org). George Soros, a guy who has compared the Bush administration to the Nazis on at least two public occasions, gave $5 MM to moveon and was a keynote speaker at at least one of its events. An event at which he made the comparision right in front of their faces. I rather think that makes Soros a **prime, main** moveroner. So I think their protests that they are being slammed unfairly on the Nazi comparision can safely be ignored until they give the money back. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/202 "2004-01-10T17:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*\*\*I must have missed it. > > When I asked " > When you asked me for my cite was it because you believed Democrats had not compared Bush to Hitler?" did you answer yes or no? \*\* actually, according to the direct quote of you on this page, the question you asked was > [@](#): > > So let me ask you straight out. Did you ask for the cite because you are this stupid, or did you ask for it just to fuck with me? > > Straight answer please. It’s only on this page that you rephrase it into an actual polite, answerable form. I think it’s clear both are fucking with each other, pretending otherwise is counterproductive. Your original claim was that ‘dems’ were making these allegations. Since the concept of ‘dems’ includes **both**'absolutely everyone who self identifies as a democrat **and** the ‘officially sanctioned’ party line, it’s also clear to me that both sides in this little bizarro gig have opted to not make that distinction clear. I would think that it’s **obvious** to anyone w/any amount of intelligence (and w/o an agenda to weild) that if one is making the statement ‘dems are talking in this way’, meaning that there exists somewhere, some one who self identifies as a democrat making this type of statement, that it’s most likely true. Meaningless as well, but true. Meaningless because in a large group such as ‘people who self identify as dems’ certainly there will be extreme beliefs expressed. Meaningless because it certainly **doesn’t** fairly represent the official “party line” or even main stream party members beliefs. Just as a reverse situation would be true w/republicans. For example one could legitimately say that ‘republicans are talking about killing abortion providers being a moral act.’ If one examined the voting record of Paul Hill, (that’s the right name, isn’t it?) or the Olympic bombing suspect Rudolph, we wouldn’t be surprised to find that they’d voted Republican vs. Dem, right? But it’s also obvious, I would think, that they don’t reflect the **main stream** of Republican party members, certainly not the Official party line. So boiled down does **either** side declare that the “Bush/Hitler” comparison _fairly and accurately_ represent main stream party members thinking/ official party line ? (IOW, I disagree w/ **manny** in that the question ‘are there folks who self identify as dems who believe this’ is: A. obviously most likely to be true. B. Just as obviously meaningless. C. and most obviously not an interesting discussion to be had. The question that I think is more interesting is ‘is this a mainstream belief’. So far, **Scylla** et al seem to be hell bent on proving that there indeed are some folks who self identify as dems who believe this. \*\*luce \*\* et al seem to not want to admit that there indeed is a lunatic fringe, so ignore that not as interesting side battle to focus on the bigger picture. If **luce** et al admit there’s a lunatic fringe believing all sorts of stupid things, will **Scylla** et al admit that it is indeed a lunatic fringe and therefore essentially, ‘so what?’ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/203 "2004-01-10T17:52:40Z")
**A** Democrat is not **the** Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/204 "2004-01-10T17:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*luce \*\* et al seem to not want to admit that there indeed is a lunatic fringe, so ignore that not as interesting side battle to focus on the bigger picture. \*\* Well, very few lunatics self-identify as such, so **luce** not admitting to it is unsurprising. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/205 "2004-01-10T17:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Well, very few lunatics self-identify as such, so **luce** not admitting to it is unsurprising. \*\* Well, thank you very much for that germane and insightful contribution, **milroyj**. Anything else to add? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/206 "2004-01-10T17:59:37Z")
I didn’t say that **luce** was a lunatic. Nor did I imply it. thanks anyhow, for playing. and yes, **Dio** has it - ‘a’ is not the same as ‘the’, yet some folks seem to be intentionaly obscuring that fact (by omitting either ‘a’ or ‘the’). Again “a” dem saying it is meaningless, a ‘so what?’. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/207 "2004-01-10T18:08:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **I didn’t say that luce was a lunatic. Nor did I imply it. thanks anyhow, for playing.** No, I said it. elucidator, et al, ARE the lunatic fringe, so why would you expect them to admit to it? Thanks anyhow, for playing, yourself. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/208 "2004-01-10T18:14:20Z")
I’m sure you consider them the ‘lunatic fringe’. I’m also fairly certain that they will consider that proof their views are damn near mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/209 "2004-01-10T18:19:20Z")
Of course they consider their views to be mainstream, it’s part and parcel of their lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/210 "2004-01-10T18:26:09Z")
well, this biting repartee is too much for my little liberal senses. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/211 "2004-01-10T18:32:19Z")
Gosh, I didn’t realize you had any sense. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/212 "2004-01-10T18:40:44Z")
Don’t you have anyone else to stalk? This sort of grade school taunting is boring. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/213 "2004-01-10T18:40:56Z")
**Milroyj** , are you a Democrat plant, because you singlehandledly are their best weapon on this board. There is a case to be amde for conservative policies, but all you do is spew Limbaughesque venom, ill-defined stats, and bigotry. You’re an embarrassment to every GOP Doper. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/214 "2004-01-10T18:45:59Z")
Where’s **Milossarian** gotten off to? He could supply some _real_ biting repartee. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/215 "2004-01-10T18:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **Milroyj, are you a Democrat plant, because you singlehandledly are their best weapon on this board. There is a case to be amde for conservative policies, but all you do is spew Limbaughesque venom, ill-defined stats, and bigotry.** Limbaugh? Don’t listen to him, because, unlike many posters here, I actually work during the day. I don’t cite stats all that often, so which one do you think was ill-defined? And your accusation of bigotry offends me, do you have a cite for my alleged bigotry? ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/216 "2004-01-10T18:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > **I don’t cite stats all that often** Yeah, it’s usually easier to ignore the facts. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/217 "2004-01-10T18:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cheddarsnax \* > \*\*Yeah, it’s usually easier to ignore the facts. \*\* Yeah, I knew that would be someone’s response. Anyhoo, where did I cite stats that were ill-defined? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/218 "2004-01-10T19:15:54Z")
In completely non-Nazi-related moveon news, I learn now that visiting their site gets you on someone’s tracking cookie such that their ads appear, at least on [cnn.com](http://cnn.com). _ **THE ADS HAVE UNSOLICITED SOUND!** _. They’re _really_ going to need the money of noted Democrat George Soros if all their small-amount contributors get fired for taking a peek at cnn while at work. Relatedly, could someone get all these political groups on any side of any issue together and get them at least to agree spyware is bad and unsolicited sound ads are bad? I mean, that’s up there with “puppies are cute” in terms of being non-controversial. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/219 "2004-01-10T21:41:42Z")
Ah, **manny**. Still on the Soros-is-a-Democrat kick? Sorry, nope, I ain’t buyin’ it. Now let me explain why. This is a matter of definition, of course. So what defines a “Democrat”? It can’t simply be–as you and the weasel are so fond of pointing out–that Soros opposes Bush and pours a noticeable percentage of his income into kicking his sorry ass back to Crawford. This is not an either-or proposition, where you either support the president or you’re a Democrat. We must, then, look at what it is that the Democratic Party stands for [Bite your tongue, weasel boy, I’ve heard enough of your "they-don’t-stand-for-anything imbecilities], and compare it to what Soros stands for. If you actually do that instead of merely picking a handful of Democratic policies that Soros supports and concluding that he’s therefore a Democrat, you’ll find that Soros is a bizarro creature whose politics are fairly leftist, fairly libertarian, and more than a little nuts. For instance, check out [this 1997 article](http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/soros.htm) from the Atlantic. In it, he gives a bit of insight into his philosophy, which makes no sense whatsoever. Or wander on over to [http://www.soros.org/](http://www.soros.org/) and see what it is he spends his money on. Is there some overlap with Democratic positions? Sure, you bet. But Soros apparently does not self-identify as a Democrat, and most of his Great Thoughts are pretty well impervious to party labels. For those reasons, I simply cannot conclude that Soros is “a Democrat,” particularly not for purposes of the weasel’s claim about how “the Democrats” are so constantly comparing Bush to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/220 "2004-01-11T00:35:55Z")
Is Richard Scaife a Republican? If you can honestly answer “no” to that question, I’ll accept (but disagree) with your viewpoint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=12)