# MoveOn, Hitler and Bush: Hooo, boy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071 "2004-01-06T20:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![45\_70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/5f9b8f/32.png) [@45\_70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/45_70)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/21 "2004-01-06T22:33:02Z")
Just how similar are Adolf and GW? Given the same senario with both. Everybody involved in the latest fracus at MoveOn are still free, alive and going about their business. Place MoveOn in Adolfs environment with his rules and I’ll bet the outcome would be much different. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/22 "2004-01-06T23:19:11Z")
We should ask the Hitler clones in Brazil what they think of this issue… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/23 "2004-01-06T23:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > \*\*Of course Bush is nothing like Hitler. For one thing, Hitler could legitimately call himself a veteran of the armed forces. For another, Hitler managed to write a whole book all by himself without a ghost writer. \*\* Cool, since I voted for Bush, I can now move on being a NAZI!!! This is obviously the waystation to becoming a Democrat? SIEG HEIL! Moron :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/24 "2004-01-06T23:38:29Z")
mhendo, thanks for taking care of my rectal/cranial inversion. I deeply regret that Mr. Boyd’s responsibility taking comments slipped through my filtering system. I was focused on one line in the Times article, and missed the other. Don’t mind me, I’ll just sit in the corner with a pointed hat for a while… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/25 "2004-01-06T23:57:30Z")
I hope you don’t think that a dignified and graceful admission of fault will help you! Cardinal, the cushy chair!!! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha! ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/26 "2004-01-07T00:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eli\_the\_fanatic \* > \*\*of course, but it’s much more acceptable to use hyperbole to smear the left. \*\* Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/27 "2004-01-07T00:40:16Z")
Ooooh. One person calls me a name, and the other uses a cliche out of context. Now I’m convinced Bush is nothing like Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/28 "2004-01-07T01:05:09Z")
Interesting that the only place you can now see these ads is on the RNC site. If [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) was intending to perpetuate these, they wouldn’t have removed them from the site as soon as the contest was over. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/29 "2004-01-07T01:09:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*The ads were posted at thier site, and participants voted thier favorites. Amongst the also-rans were some god-awful drivel that didn’t make the cut, ads comparing Bush to Hitler, that got what they deserved: squat. \*\* Do you have a cite for this? I hadn’t heard anything about the particular ranking of these ads. > [@](#): > > \*\*Next thing you know, Drudge is screaming himself hoarse over the “Hitler Ads” and the RNC is right behind, pissing and moaning over dissing Our Leader… \*\* Absolutely. If Moveon is going to be stupid enough to allow this content on their website, your damn right they ought to take advantage of it. I would. And, considering dare I say, **your** scandalmongering history on this board, I have no doubt if it were the other way around, you’d be screaming from the treetops about it. I hate to cry “hypocrite” (really I do.)’ Man fucking look at you. Can you even do this with a straight face? Lightning is gonna strike your ass. They compared him to Hitler. I mean even the nuttiest nutjobs on this board don’t even do that, and they did it on a National site directly associated with the Democratic party. > [@](#): > > \*\*"It sounded like a fun way to expand participation in this year’s presidential election, at least for those opposed to re-electing President Bush. The left-leaning Internet group [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) sponsored a contest, “Bush in 30 Seconds,” inviting people to submit television advertisements about Mr. Bush, with the best to be determined by a vote of visitors to the site. \*\* This is interesting on two levels to me. Usually in poster contests and such, the theme is to talk about what makes your cause special or your candidate great. I thought mudslinging was generally considered bad form. The purpose of this contest **is** mudslinging against Bush. I’ve idly commented from time to time that the Democrats main theme is “Bush sucks,” and they don’t really stand for anything positive anymore. Things like this kind of confirm it. The second interesting thing is the irony. I mean Moveon is the cite that was started to combat the persecution being directed at the last President, right? Now it’s dedicated to attacking the next President. They should at least change the name or something to make the ironic hypocrisy less apparent. > [@](#): > > But two of more than 1,500 submissions have outraged Republicans and leading Jewish groups for comparing Mr. Bush, in profile and policy, to Hitler. Oh them come the fuck on. He got Godwinized. > [@](#): > > \*\*Wes Boyd, a [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) founder, fired back, saying Republicans were “deliberately and maliciously” misleading the public by asserting that [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) had sponsored the advertisements. “None of these was our ad,” Mr. Boyd said in a statement. “Nor did their appearance constitute endorsement or sponsorship by [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) Voter Fund.” \*\* This has got to be the weakest shit I have ever heard. They have an ad on their website comparing Bush to Hitler and it’s the Republicans that are malicious? I realize partisanism is blinding but this is just stupid? They didn’t sponsor it? It’s their contest. Of course they sponsored it. That’s the theme. Make an anti-Bush ad. I think the following is a very important point. [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) was screening the ads. They specifically said they wouldn’t post those with objectionable content. It is their own website. They are responsible for what occurs on their website. Let’s take another example. Let’s say I post stolen credit card numbers on the Straight Dope. The Straight Dope is responsible for the content here. If they did not act diligently to remove these they might have a legal problem. This is worse. Say instead of posting the credit card numbers, I sent them to Unclebeer for approval and he posted them for me? That’s what Moveon has done. They are clearly controlling content and not just letting people post these things themselves. They get sent in, **reviewed** and then posted. I see no way Moveon can absolve itself from this content. The smart thing to do would be to say. “We understand how offensive this was. We accept full responsibility, and extend our sincere apologies for the content that occured on our site.” Attacking back and calling the Pubbies Malicious is just stupid. If I just punch somebody in the face and they get angry about it, it’s kinda silly for me to compain about their hostility. > [@](#): > > Please: MoveOn did not fund the ads, did not promote them, has no intention of any further connection to them. Point of fact, the ads were soundly rejected by the MoveOn folks, and represent only 2 out of 1,500! \*\* You’re shitting me. Of course they funded the ads, of course they sponsored and supported them. They spent the money to have the contest and provide the bandwith, diskspace, etcetera for these things to be created. They said the winner would get on TV, for chrissake! That’s “no further connection.” Let’s be realistic. Tell me if you disagree with this asessment. I would guess that some idiot reviewed these ads and didn’t think about looking beyond kiddy porn and curse words, and so allowed them to be put on the website. That’s what I think happened. Seeing as they Godwinized Bush and fucked up big time by allowing it on their site I think a hefty round of shit eating and apologizing is in order. It is **their** fault. They are responsible for the content. If I ask Gaudere if it’s ok to post my “eight easy ways to launder money” thread and she approves it, and then I think the SDMB is screwed. That’s what the mods tell us anyway. That’s why we have moderation. That’s why Moveon monitored the content. The cleared it. They fucked up. > [@](#): > > \*\*I got two bits says Pubbie pundits will be talking about ads comparing GeeDub to Hitler every chance they get. Of course, it ain’t so. \*\* Of course they will. Absolutely. Why not? I mean it’s not like if George Bush does something really stupid, the Democrats are going to ignore it. It’s not like you would ignore it. Would you? If thou fumblest the ball, shouldest I not pick it up? Is it my fault thou has fumbled? Shall I not score? > [@](#): > > \*\*(Your correspondent from the Conservative Wing of the Extreme Left urges you to [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) to see the winning ads. They are dynamite! Fuckin’ brilliant!.. Well, not _all_ of you. Some of my more dearly beloved opposition would be ill-advised, I don’t want to be responsible for cerebral hemmorages amongst the Usual Suspects…) > > GO! [http://moveon.org/](http://moveon.org/) \*\* I looked. It confirms my thesis that the Democratic party is really flailing around and doesn’t stand for anything. “Bush sucks” is hardly a laudable and winning campaign stance. But if that’s all you got, that’s all you got. It’s a shame the Democrats don’t have anything to say about how good they are, or what they stand for. I find that meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/30 "2004-01-07T01:14:02Z")
As to the hypocrisy of the RNC, Moveon had this to say in their member email: "Not only is the RNC campaign deceptive, it’s also totally disingenuous. Yesterday, the New York Post ran a long opinion column focusing exclusively on how much Presidential Candidate Howard Dean resembles Hitler, even calling him “Herr Howie.” Of course, the RNC hasn’t issued a condemnation of that. When close RNC ally Grover Norquist repeatedly compared taxing the wealthy with the Holocaust in an interview on NPR, the RNC was muted. And in 2002, the RNC and its allies were silent when supporters of President Bush actually aired TV ads morphing the face of Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee as a result of wounds sustained in Vietnam, into Osama bin Laden. Given such a transparently partisan track record, the RNC’s moral outrage doesn’t mean a whole lot." ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/31 "2004-01-07T01:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*It’s a shame the Democrats don’t have anything to say about how good they are, or what they stand for. I find that meaningful. \*\* So do I, **Scylla** , though I find that disappointing, since I disagree with you on damn near everything political. But it’s not any better from the Republican side, you know. Unfortunately, mud slinging does work to some extent. I’d be a lot happier if both sides would just tell us what their goals are, what they will do, what ideals they stand for and quit calling the other side facists or traitors. I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/32 "2004-01-07T01:20:17Z")
**cheddarsnax** is right that the type of over-the-top language used in the editorial by Peters was worthy of denunciation. And **Homebrew** , you’re absolutely right that Republicans should denounce those terrible attack ads on Cleland. Luckily, the article that you linked included just such denunciations. From your article: > [@](#): > > Immediately the ad was denounced, not just by Democrats but also by two Republican senators – John McCain and Chuck Hagel, both of them Vietnam veterans. > > “I’ve never seen anything like that ad,” says McCain. “Putting pictures of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden next to a picture of a man who left three limbs on the battlefield – it’s worse than disgraceful, it’s reprehensible.” > > Irate, Hagel told Republican officials that if they didn’t pull the ad, he would make an ad denouncing them. After that, Chambliss’s campaign removed the pictures of Hussein and bin Laden from the ad. > > “Max Cleland has given as much to this country as any living human being,” Hagel says. “To say he is in some way connected to people like Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was beyond offensive to me. It made me recoil, quite honestly.” Of course, I can’t help but notice that neither **cheddarsnax** not **Homebrew** have denounced the ad from the OP. Nor have you denounced **eli\_the\_fanatic** ’s comparison of Bush and Hitler. So while you’re attacking the hypocricy of Republicans asking for apologies but not denouncing attack ads against Democrats, you’re also being hypocritical by asking for apologies but not denouncing attack ads against Democrats. . . . so I guess everyone is a hypocrite. Now can we get back to the question at hand? My two cents: [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) is responsible for the content of their site (especially after reviewing the materials), but they moved with reasonable dispatch in removing and denouncing this crap. I await with baited breath your own denunciations, as well as **elucidator** ’s explanation of how the ad didn’t compare Bush to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/33 "2004-01-07T01:29:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by This Year’s Model \* > \*\*So do I, **Scylla** , though I find that disappointing, since I disagree with you on damn near everything political. But it’s not any better from the Republican side, you know. Unfortunately, mud slinging does work to some extent. > > I’d be a lot happier if both sides would just tell us what their goals are, what they will do, what ideals they stand for and quit calling the other side facists or traitors. I’m not holding my breath. \*\* Actually, I think it is a little better over here on the Republican side as far as mudslinging goes. I’m trying to take my partisan hat off in saying this, but it seems to me that the Republicans have a lot of ideas, and a pretty clear stance compared to the Democratic “Bush sucks” theme that seems to be the present totality of Democratic party affiliation. Of course it wasn’t too long ago that being a Republican was primarily defined by your ability to shout “Lewinsky!” and “Blowjob” at the top of your voice… and little else, so I agree with your point to a certain degree. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/34 "2004-01-07T02:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > If Moveon is going to be stupid enough to allow this content on their website, your damn right they ought to take advantage of it. I would. Of course you would. I would expect no more from a person such as yourself. ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/35 "2004-01-07T02:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > “This is the worst and most vile form of political hate speech,” Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee, said in one of several statements he issued. He urged the nine Democrats running for president to repudiate the advertisements. The only thing I have to add to this lamentable thread is that I find it ironic that the Republican Party has finally discovered the awesome power of victimology - a tactic pioneered and perfected by the left. P.S. - Thank you, **Age Quod Agis** , for adding much-needed, disinterested sanity to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/36 "2004-01-07T02:25:11Z")
Hi Minty! How you doing, Pal? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/37 "2004-01-07T02:38:47Z")
Actually, **Scylla** , if you bothered to read something other than [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com), you would find that the Democrats are giving itemized reasons why “Bush sucks” - He deliberately used fradulent evidence to start the war in Iraq \*He has abandoned the search for Bin Laden, who caused 9/11 \*His attorney general is still holding innocent people in jail for questioning in connection with 9/11, despite having zero evidence against them and has seriously weakened civil liberties for all Americans. \*His irresponsible tax cuts have created a gigantic budget deficit and is crippling government services on both federal and state levels \*His adminstration continues to chip away at environmental protections. \*His adminstration’s laissez-faire attitude toward corporate sleaze encouraged Enron and other companies to defraud their investors and their employees with impunity \*His administration has seriously damaged our relations with the rest of the world. That’s just a small sampling of the damage that this corrupt, venal administration is doing to this nation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/38 "2004-01-07T02:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > **Do you have a cite for this? I hadn’t heard anything about the particular ranking of these ads.** What do you need a cite for? Go to the link that i gave in my earlier post, and you’ll see the fifteen finalists, none of which is either of the Hitler ads in question. Those ads did not receive enough votes to make the final cut, so they get squat, exactly as **elucidator** said. In a contest where there is only one prize, for the first-placed contestant, everyone else gets “squat” by definition. I suppose if you’re trying to make some sort of point about whether these ads were voted into 16th place or 1000th place, then maybe overall ranking might be of interest, but even in that case it would tell you nothing about the MoveOn organizers, only about the people who voted for the ads. > [@](#): > > **Absolutely. If Moveon is going to be stupid enough to allow this content on their website, your damn right they ought to take advantage of it. I would. And, considering dare I say, your scandalmongering history on this board, I have no doubt if it were the other way around, you’d be screaming from the treetops about it. I hate to cry “hypocrite” (really I do.)'** You apparently hate it so much that you can’t even bring yourself to call the RNC hypocrites for criticizing MoveOn, yet ignoring Republicans who compare Democrats to Hitler. > [@](#): > > **Man fucking look at you. Can you even do this with a straight face? Lightning is gonna strike your ass. They compared him to Hitler. I mean even the nuttiest nutjobs on this board don’t even do that, and they did it on a National site directly associated with the Democratic party.** Again, you persist in confusing the issue, acting as if MoveOn produced the ads in question and explicitly endorsed their message. Saying “they” did this and “they” did that might make you feel better, but all it does is conflate MoveOn organizers with the contest entrants–two different groups. Sure, the ads were silly and should have been weeded out, but i guess the regret expressed by the people at MoveOn for this oversight means nothing to you. Apparently apologies are only acceptable when they come from former substance-abusing Republicans–then we can forgive and just Move On, so to speak. > [@](#): > > **This is interesting on two levels to me. Usually in poster contests and such, the theme is to talk about what makes your cause special or your candidate great. I thought mudslinging was generally considered bad form. The purpose of this contest is mudslinging against Bush. I’ve idly commented from time to time that the Democrats main theme is “Bush sucks,” and they don’t really stand for anything positive anymore. Things like this kind of confirm it.** I hoped you were intelligent enough to be able to distinguish between mudslinging and political criticism. I certainly agree that too many political advertisements nowdays are simply personally abusive, but pointing out the flaws in a candidate’s policies and political actions, and the consequences of those things, is a perfectly valid political strategy, at least in a democracy. But Republicans haven’t had much use for that lately. > [@](#): > > **The second interesting thing is the irony. I mean Moveon is the cite that was started to combat the persecution being directed at the last President, right? Now it’s dedicated to attacking the next President. They should at least change the name or something to make the ironic hypocrisy less apparent.** Actually, if you bothered to read the website, you’d see that the organization is devoted to much borader issues of policy and participatory democracy than to simply attacking the incumbent. Also, you make the standard Republican assumption that criticism of Clinton’s sexual peccadilloes is the same as criticism of Bush’s foreign and domestic policy. > [@](#): > > \*\*This has got to be the weakest shit I have ever heard. They have an ad on their website comparing Bush to Hitler and it’s the Republicans that are malicious? I realize partisanism is blinding but this is just stupid? > > They didn’t sponsor it? It’s their contest. Of course they sponsored it. That’s the theme. Make an anti-Bush ad.\*\* Jesus, you’re a bit fucking thick today, aren’t you? They sponsored the CONTEST, dimwit, not each and every contestant. They provided no assistance or funding for the production of any of the ads, and nor did they exercise any control over what each person submitted. > [@](#): > > **I think the following is a very important point. [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) was screening the ads. They specifically said they wouldn’t post those with objectionable content. It is their own website. They are responsible for what occurs on their website.** Yes, and they admitted the error and expressed their deep regret that it occurred. They distanced themselves from the ads explicitly, calling them “in poor taste.” Again, are apologies only valid when they come from Republicans? > [@](#): > > \*\*Let’s take another example. Let’s say I post stolen credit card numbers on the Straight Dope. The Straight Dope is responsible for the content here. If they did not act diligently to remove these they might have a legal problem. This is worse. Say instead of posting the credit card numbers, I sent them to Unclebeer for approval and he posted them for me? > > That’s what Moveon has done. They are clearly controlling content and not just letting people post these things themselves. They get sent in, **reviewed** and then posted. > > I see no way Moveon can absolve itself from this content. > > The smart thing to do would be to say. “We understand how offensive this was. We accept full responsibility, and extend our sincere apologies for the content that occured on our site.”\*\* Jesus H. Fucking Christ in handbasket! That’s exactly what they’ve done, dipshit, in case you haven’t been reading. And your analogy is just stupid. Whatever you think of the content of those ads, they are protected by the First Amendment. Posting stolen credit card numbers would be flat out illegal. > [@](#): > > \*\*Attacking back and calling the Pubbies Malicious is just stupid. > > If I just punch somebody in the face and they get angry about it, it’s kinda silly for me to compain about their hostility.\*\* It’s becoming rather obvious that you can’t keep two separate issues in your head at the same time, so let me lay it out for you. Yes, the fact that those ads made it onto MoveOn’s website was regrettable, and they have admitted as much. But this, in turn, does not absolve the RNC of its blatant and deliberate misrepresentation of the circumstances under which the ads appeared and who was responsible for their content. As i noted in a previous post, the RNC didn’t even have the integrity to mention that the ads were part of a contest, and their content was not produced by MoveOn. Further, the RNC stated openly that these particular ads, the ones with the Hitler references, were distined for television, and that MoveOn had approved them for such use. > [@](#): > > **You’re shitting me. Of course they funded the ads, of course they sponsored and supported them. They spent the money to have the contest and provide the bandwith, diskspace, etcetera for these things to be created. They said the winner would get on TV, for chrissake! That’s "no further connection."** By your logic, when a Coca Cola ad appears on NBC, it must have been “sponsored and supported” by NBC, because NBC is providing the means of distribution, videotape space, etc. Coca Cola, despite having funded the making of the ad and acted as the producer of its content, is not in fact the sponsor. Again, you ridiculously conflate sponsoring the ads themselves with sponsoring the contest of which they are a part. Again, MoveOn erred in allowing these ads on their website, a mistake which they have admitted, and for which they have expressed regret. This does not excuse the RNC’c attempt to paint MoveOn as the creator of the ads’ content. > [@](#): > > \*\*Let’s be realistic. Tell me if you disagree with this asessment. I would guess that some idiot reviewed these ads and didn’t think about looking beyond kiddy porn and curse words, and so allowed them to be put on the website. That’s what I think happened. > > Seeing as they Godwinized Bush and fucked up big time by allowing it on their site I think a hefty round of shit eating and apologizing is in order. It is **their** fault. They are responsible for the content.\*\* Do you really need to have it pointed out to you AGAIN? > [@](#): > > \*\*If I ask Gaudere if it’s ok to post my “eight easy ways to launder money” thread and she approves it, and then I think the SDMB is screwed. That’s what the mods tell us anyway. That’s why we have moderation. That’s why Moveon monitored the content. > > The cleared it. They fucked up.\*\* Which, in case i haven’t mentioned it yet, they’ve admitted. And again you conflate legal and illegal activity to make your increasingly-opaque point. > [@](#): > > \*\*Of course they will. Absolutely. Why not? > > I mean it’s not like if George Bush does something really stupid, the Democrats are going to ignore it. It’s not like you would ignore it. Would you? > > If thou fumblest the ball, shouldest I not pick it up? > > Is it my fault thou has fumbled? > > Shall I not score?\*\* Now you’re just sounding like a dribbling idiot. Poor analogies and faux-medieval speak to boot. > [@](#): > > \*\*I looked. It confirms my thesis that the Democratic party is really flailing around and doesn’t stand for anything. > > “Bush sucks” is hardly a laudable and winning campaign stance. > > But if that’s all you got, that’s all you got. > > It’s a shame the Democrats don’t have anything to say about how good they are, or what they stand for. I find that meaningful. \*\* You make it sound as if good Democratic policies might actually sway you from your knee-jerk conservatism. Don’t make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/39 "2004-01-07T02:57:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Actually, **Scylla** , if you bothered to read something other than [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com), you would find that the Democrats are giving itemized reasons why “Bush sucks”… > > …That’s just a small sampling of the damage that this corrupt, venal > administration is doing to this nation. \*\* I see. Are you defending the Hitler characterization? ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/40 "2004-01-07T03:09:16Z")
Hmm. I viewed my post as more of a suggestion to candidates than an explicit denunciation of the ads/columns/etc, _but_ I believe that condemnation of the MoveOn ads was implied when I suggested that Dem candidates denounce the BushHitler ads and score some political points on the side. Specifically, Dem candidates should “denounce this type of ad”, and demand that the GOP and candidate do the same. **Scylla** : I believe the Democrats, especially the nomination candidates, have presented their ideas and beliefs with great clarity. Unfortunately, their positive vision for America’s future is often lost among the mindless mudslinging and radical rhetoric of their supporters. (now that’s press release material!). And while the GOP has toned down its vicious anti-Dem rhetoric since Clin-Ton left office, they certainly haven’t stopped the bullshit train completely. Who are the candidates? Let’s ask the GOPs. Clark is a liar, “self-absorbed”, “obsessed with appearances”, “arrogant”, and a “control freak”. Dean? A liar, willing to “demean the presidency” for his own gain. He grossly misrepresents his beliefs to deceive voters. How about the Dem party? “Elitist”. Its members do not want to prevent terrorism. Democrats are not concerned with fighting AIDS, unemployment, and pollution. And let’s not forget the ad that implicitly states that Dems support terrorism (“some are attacking the president for attacking terrorists”). Democrats fear majority rule - they want to avoid it “at all costs”. They’re “shameless”. They “aren’t interested” in addressing energy problems. They’re “hateful”. They lie to minorities to win their support. They engage in character assassination. They want to “destroy the American dream”. Now that’s high-minded political discourse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=3)