# MoveOn, Hitler and Bush: Hooo, boy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071 "2004-01-06T20:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/61 "2004-01-07T05:34:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cheddarsnax \* > \*\*[ADL does the right thing](http://www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20040106-NYPost.htm) (re: Herr Howie) > > [Simon Wiesenthal Center accepts regrets from MoveOn](http://www.wiesenthal.com/social/press/pr_item.cfm?ItemId=8726) \*\* Stay tuned for conservative commentators alleging that this is just further evidence of liberal Jews being in league with the anti-Americans at MoveOn and in the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/62 "2004-01-07T05:35:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > **Anyone who can’t admit that the RNC account of the situation is a despicable piece of knowing spin is warped beyond my comprehension.** This is an obvious attack on **Scylla** , and I am ashamed that it has fallen through the cracks of The Straight Dope’s elaborate filtering system. This post has the tacit endorsement of the Straight Dope staff, readers, and, most likely, of Cecil himself. That they paid for the bandwidth and hosting fees for this post proves that they approve of its message. No apology can possibly be accepted for such an outrageous insult. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/63 "2004-01-07T05:54:27Z")
Seems the story is dying down in a hurry. Wonder who was the first guy over at the RNC to catch on… “Uh, you know, guys…we’re calling a lot of attention to this [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) site. Some of that’s gotta be people who never heard of it before. Is that _really_ a good idea? Some of those ads are pretty darned clever, actually, so I’m wondering…” Have you checked them out, yet? Think my favorite is the one with the kids giving speeches. If you haven’t checked them out, they’re at > **[MoveOn: People-Powered Progress](https://front.moveon.org/)** > > MoveOn is a community of millions of Americans from all walks of life who use innovative technology to lead, participate in, and win campaigns for progressive change. Oh, I _did_ mention that? Well, all right then. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/64 "2004-01-07T06:28:44Z")
Vote Bush: not as bad as Hitler, when you really think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/65 "2004-01-07T14:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Nonsense. They sponsored the contest and provided the bandwith and the forum and they vetted the ad. To deny a connection between the organization and the content of it’s website is thick and dimwitted. I’m recognizing a couple of basic facts. > > 1. Their contest. > 2. Their bandwith. > 3. Their website. > 4. They reviewed the contents prior to publication. > > And yet you would have me beleive they have no responsibility or connection or culpability to what is said. I think you should look at your own thick dimwittedness in this before you cast the aspersion on another. This is absurd. If they set up a filtering process beforehand, **not thinking that someone might make a Godwinizing ad** , they may have had simple rules: no nudity, no cussing, no promoting another candidate (the last would deprive them of 501©(3) status). If they assigned this vetting job to a non-self-starter employee, then it’s perfectly understandable that the employee wouldn’t catch the Godwinizing ads. **Scylla** , you say they’re responsible for providing bandwidth and hosting to the ad. Let’s think about this for a second. Who has ensured that more people see the ad – MoveOn, or the Republican National Committee? The latter group is also providing bandwidth and hosting to the ad, and they’ve done their damnedest to ensure that it gets wide airplay. They’re not doing it out of any clean motives, and they can’t claim ignorance of what they’re doing. Why, they’re just like the guy who kicks his dog to death to show the cops how the neighbor pushed his dog out of his yard. Daniel learning from the Scylla analogy school ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/66 "2004-01-07T14:48:42Z")
For crying out loud, reflect a bit on why anyone would want to make the comparison in the first place. It might have something to do with the roll back of civil liberties and invading other countries. It might have to do with the use of “patriotic” rhetoric to silence all criticism and encourage groupthink. It might be that these are bigger issues than the backlash against those issues. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/67 "2004-01-07T14:59:54Z")
I think the RNC is just jealous that [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org), a genuine grassroots organization, got 1500 entires while they have to resort to [Astroturf campaigns](http://www.failureisimpossible.com/dosomething/sod.htm). ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/68 "2004-01-07T15:05:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Actually, I think it is a little better over here on the Republican side as far as mudslinging goes. I’m trying to take my partisan hat off in saying this, but it seems to me that the Republicans have a lot of ideas, and a pretty clear stance compared to the Democratic “Bush sucks” theme that seems to be the present totality of Democratic party affiliation. I don’t think they should get much credit for this. Generally the incumbent wants to talk about what kind of a great job he is doing, while the challenger tries to show people how terrible a job he is doing. > [@](#): > > Of course it wasn’t too long ago that being a Republican was primarily defined by your ability to shout “Lewinsky!” and “Blowjob” at the top of your voice… and little else, so I agree with your point to a certain degree. Exactly. See above. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Left Hand of Dorkness \* > Let’s think about this for a second. Who has ensured that more people see the ad – MoveOn, or the Republican National Committee? The latter group is also providing bandwidth and hosting to the ad, and they’ve done their damnedest to ensure that it gets wide airplay. They’re not doing it out of any clean motives, and they can’t claim ignorance of what they’re doing. Why, they’re just like the guy who kicks his dog to death to show the cops how the neighbor pushed his dog out of his yard. Atmosphere is everything. The same ad might inflame people’s passions when presented to a website of partisan Bush bashers as part of a Bush-bashing contest, but yet provoke a negative reaction when presented by the RNC as part of a complaint about negative ads. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/69 "2004-01-07T17:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _eli\_the\_fanatic:_ > How is pointing out differences between Hitler and Bush a “comparison”? Not to put too fine a point on it, but it’s the **definition of the word**. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > comparison > \Com_par"i_son\ (? or ?), n. [F. comparaison, L. comparatio. See 1st Compare.] 1. The act of comparing; an examination of two or more objects with the view of discovering the resemblances **or differences** ; relative estimate. And lest you get away with this crap, you compared Hitler _favorably_ to Bush. > [@](#): > > _eli\_the\_fanatic:_ > I don’t think Bush is Hitler. Yes, you apparently think Bush is _worse_ than Hitler. > [@](#): > > _eli\_the\_fanatic:_ > I’m sorry if the best thing you can say about your man is that he’s not Hitler. No, the best thing that _you_ can say about Bush is that he’s not Hitler. Any rational person – regardless of party affiliation – could come up with a laundry list of things that are good about Bush. It always frightens me when people actually believe this type of hyperbolic vitriol. It might not be a bad idea for you to take a break from MoveOn and expose yourself to some new ideas. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/70 "2004-01-07T17:44:12Z")
I have a question that might be a slight hijack, please forgive me . . wha tif Bush _were_ Hitler? What if the GOP were declared the only legal political party, and Al Gore, Howard Dean, **Elucidator** , \*_Diogenes the Cynic_, Michael Moore and all other open Democrats were indefinitely detained? What if gay people were subject to imprisonment or execution? What if Christianity were made the only legal religion and Jews, Muslims, and adherents of other other faced the choice of conversion or death? In other words, let us say that the most hysterical lefty’s worst nightmare came true and conservatives could reorder the nation as they wished? Would any of you really mind? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/71 "2004-01-07T17:49:34Z")
And the sane question goes to the Democrats. If you could muszzle your opponents and end elections permanently, as long as your side ended up in control, would you object? Does anybody here genuinely believe in democracy and the competition of ideas, or do you wish to silence your opponents and run roughshod over anyone who disagrees with you? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/72 "2004-01-07T17:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > \*\*Not to put too fine a point on it, but it’s the **definition of the word**. You correctly point out that comparison involved a search for both similarities and differences. This being the case, i don’t see the problem in comparing _anyone_ with Hitler (or with anyone else, for that matter), as long as an honest attempt is made to point out the similarities _and_ the differences > [@](#): > > \*\*And lest you get away with this crap, you compared Hitler _favorably_ to Bush. > > \ > > Yes, you apparently think Bush is _worse_ than Hitler.No, the best thing that _you_ can say about Bush is that he’s not Hitler.\*\* Well, i agree that calling Bush worse than Hitler is just plain silly. However, i think it’s actually an irrational and anti-intellectual position to argue, as people often do, that Hitler and the Holocaust should never be used as referents in any scheme of comparison or any search for historical parallels. Human history contains some pretty awful people and episodes, and while Hitler and the Holocaust are right up there among the worst, i don’t believe that they should be put in an intellectual box marked “Never to be opened.” > [@](#): > > **Any rational person – regardless of party affiliation – could come up with a laundry list of things that are good about Bush.** Sorry, you’re wrong about that. > [@](#): > > \*\*It always frightens me when people actually believe this type of hyperbolic vitriol. It might not be a bad idea for you to take a break from MoveOn and expose yourself to some new ideas. \*\* Have you been taking lessons from **Scylla**? MoveOn has explicitly apologized for the appearance of these ads on its website, and has made clear that it has no time for comparisons of Bush and Hitler. **Gobear** , i take your point, but silencing one’s opponents and pointing out their errors and misrepresentations are not the same thing. Personally, i believe in absolute freedom of speech, and i’m happy to allow those i disagree with to say anything they please. Hell, i even oppose hate speech laws. But i also reserve the right to call bullshit when i see it, and to expose hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/73 "2004-01-07T18:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Gobear, i take your point, but silencing one’s opponents and pointing out their errors and misrepresentations are not the same thing. Personally, i believe in absolute freedom of speech, and i’m happy to allow those i disagree with to say anything they please. Hell, i even oppose hate speech laws. But i also reserve the right to call bullshit when i see it, and to expose hypocrisy. Agreed, but my point was not directed at any one person. In the contemporary political climate, it seems to me that both Left and Right are more interested in the fortunes of their party than in the welfare of the country. Look at how the GOP hindered the Clinton adminstration with legal harrassment and a taxpayer-funded witch hunt. Look at how the Left seizes on setback in Iraq to attack Bush and look at how Bush used 9/11, a traumatic event that should have pulled the nation together, to accomplish his own partisan goals. I say the hell with the lot of you–I’m voting for President Bartlett! ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/74 "2004-01-07T19:10:47Z")
Age Quod Agis, you share one quality with Bush: a steadfast refusal to appreciate any kind of irony. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/75 "2004-01-07T19:11:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > \*\* Any rational person – regardless of party affiliation – could come up with a laundry list of things that are good about Bush. \*\* Not an American, thus no party affiliation. OTOH, I have no reason to doubt my ‘rationality’ and from my vantage point, I can think of no such “list” of good things about Bush. In fact, I think he’s an asshole through and through. But do enlighten moi, please. ---
**Author:** ![eli\_the\_fanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@eli\_the\_fanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eli_the_fanatic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/76 "2004-01-07T19:29:36Z")
BTW, Age Quod: Hitler was democratically elected. There’s another difference between Bush and Hitler. Really, it’s a pretty weak analogy. If they wanted an accurate historical analogy, they’d have to find some callous, spoiled emporer or king who never worked for anything, spent his youth in excess, and later became a war-mongering religious fanatic, despised criticism, sought to punish anyone who disagreed with him, etc. Maybe Caligula? DTC knows Roman history better than me. Nobody owes the RNC or Age Quod an apology for not showing enough respect for this weasel who cheated his way into the presidency, waged war on the consititution, and led our country into war, while continuing the Republican plot to create a Brazilian type economy. Fuck them. Bush isn’t like Hitler, but they don’t deserve an apology from MoveOn. I’m mad at MoveOn for being defensive about it. They should have told the RNC to go fuck themselves. That’s the classic problem right now: the right wing manufactures attacks, and the pansy left gets defensive. I wish the left had some backbone. They should tell the RNC that if they want to continue forcing the Bush/Hitler meme at people, go right ahead, but fuck their outrage. Maybe they should stop being outraged because someone attacks Bush and start being outraged over what the fuck is doing our country. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/77 "2004-01-07T19:31:01Z")
1. He has never worn brown shoes with a blue suit. 2. He is unfailingly kind and respectful to his mother. 3. He has never been known to hold his dog up by its ears. 4. uh…ummmmmm…well, uh… ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/78 "2004-01-07T19:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*I have a question that might be a slight hijack, please forgive me . . wha tif Bush _were_ Hitler? > > \ > > Would any of you really mind? \*\* I’d definately mind. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/79 "2004-01-07T20:38:59Z")
_Coming next week:_ The RNC threatens to file a lawsuit after Mike Delgato of Santa Rosa, CA, posts on his weblog that “Bush is as bad as Hitler, and the GOP is a bunch’a Nazis.” This makes the top of the hour at Fox News, and **Scylla** bravely goes on the SDMB to defend the RNC against “political toxic waste.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071/80 "2004-01-07T20:51:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*1. He has never worn brown shoes with a blue suit. > 2. He is unfailingly kind and respectful to his mother. > 3. He has never been known to hold his dog up by its ears. > \*\* Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moveon-hitler-and-bush-hooo-boy/223071.md?page=5)