# Movie Flaws the Director is perfectly aware of **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084 "2006-10-27T07:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/1 "2006-10-27T07:47:34Z")
In the other Movie Flaw threads, it seems clear that some of the “flaws” in a movie are things it would be impossible for a director to do by mistake. They deliberately introduced something unrealistic because it worked better within the scheme of the movie that a more realistic scenario. So what movie flaws do directors know with full knowledge that they are flaws and what can be attributed to plain carelessness? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/2 "2006-10-27T08:03:35Z")
I believe that in the soon to be Classic Horror Movie, [Feast](http://imdb.com/title/tt0426459/), much of the Alien/Monster storyline was unfirm as far as origins and incorporation. I remember from Project Greenlight that this was an inconsistency that guided the Monster’s appearance and dialogue, but Gulager filmed it regardless. They finally solidified it all in post with a thorough retconning and editing. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/3 "2006-10-27T09:16:23Z")
It’s not a plot hole or an impossibility, but I’d read that Ridley Scott was perfectly aware that gladiatorial combat was not decided by a thumbs-up/thumbs-down gesture. He included it in **Gladiator** , however, since the accurate gesture would have been unnecessarily confusing. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/4 "2006-10-27T10:51:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] It’s not a plot hole or an impossibility, but I’d read that Ridley Scott was perfectly aware that gladiatorial combat was not decided by a thumbs-up/thumbs-down gesture. He included it in **Gladiator** , however, since the accurate gesture would have been unnecessarily confusing. [/QUOTE] Not to mention that the thumbs down-maneuver has a lot of cinematic potential. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/5 "2006-10-27T12:41:22Z")
Not a flaw from a particular movie, but a category of “flaws” that annoy me in listing of flaws in movies. When characters go from Point A to Point B in a city, managing to hit all the widely spaced landmarks in a short amount of time. And other variations on this theme. The director is not trying to depict a typical commute through the city or to the city. He or she is aiming for a cinematically interesting route through the city. He or she has a particular look in mind. I understand that it can be fun to point out that Movie X or TV Show Y is set in Big City A and filmed in Big City B, but these are not flaws in the same sense as a plot hole or an inconsistancy which occurs due to multiple takes of one scene. And so, while they can be fun to read about in a thread titled “Geographical Inconsistancies in Movies and TV shows”, they don’t belong in ALL movie flaw threads. IMHO, YMMV, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/6 "2006-10-27T12:56:12Z")
In _Die Hard 2_, Bruce Willis had to fight off terrorists again. On Christmas Eve. Again. Yeah, it strained credibility. That’s why the writers inserted a line where he said, “I can’t believe it’s happening again.” It was a brilliant way of telling the audience, “Yeah, yeah. We know this is completely implausible. Let’s acknowledge that and just move along, okay?” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/7 "2006-10-27T14:29:41Z")
The movie **Cobb** is a generally accurate retelling of the relationship between Ty Cobb and his biographer Al Stump. In addition to writing the official biography, Stump also secretly took notes showing the darker side of Cobb. In the movie, Cobb discovers the notes and blows up over it. In real life, Cobb never did. Writer/Director Ron Shelton has said that he knew that Cobb never saw the notes, but dramatic necessity said you couldn’t show Stump taking the notes without Cobb finding out. In **Down With Love** the geography of Manhattan is nonsense (Renee Zellweger arrives at Grand Central and sees the UN across the street), but it’s clearly an exaggerated version of what **Eureka** was talking about. They do the same thing with **The Day After Tomorrow** : the shot of the tidal wave hitting Manhattan shows open ocean where Brooklyn should be, and later the southward moving storm hits the Empire State Building (at 34th Street) before hitting the Public Library (at 42nd Street). I’m sure Emmerich was aware of the georgraphical nonsense, but ignored it in favor of the story. > [@JThunder](#): > > Yeah, it strained credibility. That’s why the writers inserted a line where he said, “I can’t believe it’s happening again.” It was a brilliant way of telling the audience, “Yeah, yeah. We know this is completely implausible. Let’s acknowledge that and just move along, okay?” Known in the [Turkey City Lexicon](http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html) as “You can’t fire me, I quit” and generally considered a writing flaw. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/8 "2006-10-27T14:37:24Z")
Pulp Fiction- Amanda Plummers screeching commands to the restaurant patrons (If any of you fucking pricks move!!! I’ll execute every last one of you mother fuckers!) is different in the two scenes we see it. You have to assume that Tarantino was aware of it and didn’t care that the dialogue didn’t match. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/9 "2006-10-27T16:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] In **Down With Love** the geography of Manhattan is nonsense (Renee Zellweger arrives at Grand Central and sees the UN across the street), but it’s clearly an exaggerated version of what **Eureka** was talking about. [/QUOTE] Very rarely is the specific geography of a city instrumental to the plot mechanics, so it’s rarely a nit worth picking. Location shooting is all about logistics first, setting a tone second, and acting as MapQuest a distant third. In your case of _Dw/L_, I’d even argue that it’s intentionally absurd (for humorous effect), much like Jacques Tati’s **Playtime** , which manages to condense all of Paris’ landmarks within spitting distance of a single building. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/10 "2006-10-27T16:49:43Z")
I’ve heard it mentioned by several filmmakers, but Joss Whedon is the only one whose name stuck, that they understand that cinematic martial arts doesn’t necessarily bear any connection with reality; they have to use the big, slow swoopy kicks so that people can see what’s happening on screen, even if they wouldn’t work in a real fight. The basic rule of thumb is, if it’s happening slow enough for the viewers to see it coming, the guy who’s about to get hit can see it coming, too, and do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/11 "2006-10-27T17:08:07Z")
One of my all-time favorite movies, _The Right Stuff_, has numerous examples of scenes that just couldn’t happen in the real world, . One example is when Chuck Yeager takes an F-104 out for a spin without a flight plan. No way a professional test pilot would take it upon himself to fly an experimental aircraft on a whim, but it dramatically succinctly communicated just how high Yeager had climbed in the test pilot world (“Does he have a flight plan?” “He must, it’s _Chuck Yeager_.”) To me, _The Right Stuff_ is an excellent example of successfully translating a book to the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/12 "2006-10-27T17:22:55Z")
[QUOTE=JThunder] Yeah, it strained credibility. That’s why the writers inserted a line where he said, “I can’t believe it’s happening again.” It was a brilliant way of telling the audience, “Yeah, yeah. We know this is completely implausible. Let’s acknowledge that and just move along, okay?” [/QUOTE] In a recent episode of _Stargate SG-1_, they referred to that as “hanging a lantern on it.” “Yeah, we know it’s unlikely and nobody will believe it… so let’s point it out.” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/13 "2006-10-27T17:48:56Z")
There are also “errors” which are recognized, perhaps intended, simply because they’re deemed too small to notice, or they’re the best way to compose the shot, or they’re in the best take, and they don’t really affect the scene - except for us nitpickers. Joss pointed out in the Firefly commentaries (sorry, I forget which ep) one scene in which Wash is sitting at the helm, holding onto the “steering wheel” of the ship - only he isn’t. He’s sitting about four feet back from it, and the actor is holding his hand in midair in a “joystick” position. They simply couldn’t get a well composed shot in the right place, so they moved all the actors back a bit. Similarly, I just saw one scene from Austin Powers (I think it was 2? The one with the fembot at the beginning). The scene in question is the synchronized swimming scene. The actress in the front right (downstage left) at the end has come up from under water with her pink flowered swimcap down over her eyes and she’s giggling about it. I’m sure that didn’t escape the director’s or editor’s attention, but it was undoubtedly the best take they had, so they printed it. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/14 "2006-10-27T17:54:40Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Similarly, I just saw one scene from Austin Powers (I think it was 2? The one with the fembot at the beginning). The scene in question is the synchronized swimming scene. The actress in the front right (downstage left) at the end has come up from under water with her pink flowered swimcap down over her eyes and she’s giggling about it. I’m sure that didn’t escape the director’s or editor’s attention, but it was undoubtedly the best take they had, so they printed it. [/QUOTE] There’s a shot in _Reservoir Dogs_ that is fairly long and consists of Harvey Keitel and Steve Buscemi conversing in profile with each other. Lots of dialogue. During the interaction, Buscemi “lights” Keitel’s cigarette, except the cigarette never actually makes contact with the lighter, but Keitel proceeds as if it did anyway, and the shot continues. Now there is absolutely no way that this escaped everyone’s attention in post-production. None whatsoever. But it’s a long take, and perhaps it’s the only one that had all the dialogue go flawlessly. Plus, given the budget limitations, there may not have been a lot of coverage on the scene, so cutting around the error may not have been possible (and even then, cutting into the scene changes the dyanmic of it implicitly). So it’s in the film. Bothersome as hell, but one has to assume that their options (especially in a filmmaking world where casually “fixing” issues via CG was hardly the norm) were somewhat limited, and getting the performances right and the dialogue right was more important than lighting the cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/15 "2006-10-27T18:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Joss pointed out in the Firefly commentaries (sorry, I forget which ep) one scene in which Wash is sitting at the helm, holding onto the “steering wheel” of the ship - only he isn’t. He’s sitting about four feet back from it, and the actor is holding his hand in midair in a “joystick” position. They simply couldn’t get a well composed shot in the right place, so they moved all the actors back a bit. [/QUOTE] And, you know, I saw this episode, and didn’t notice it. I even watched the DVD with commentary, then a few weeks later I watched the episode again, and I _still_ didn’t see it. It took three or four times through the episode before I started noticing his hand just hanging there in midair… ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/16 "2006-10-27T18:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=Push You Down] Pulp Fiction- Amanda Plummers screeching commands to the restaurant patrons (If any of you fucking pricks move!!! I’ll execute every last one of you mother fuckers!) is different in the two scenes we see it. You have to assume that Tarantino was aware of it and didn’t care that the dialogue didn’t match. [/QUOTE] I seem to recall him mentioning in an interview that it was actually intentional. It was a device to show that the two scenes wre from different peoples’ perspectives, and hence, are remembered slightly differently. > [@Archiveguy](#): > > During the interaction, Buscemi “lights” Keitel’s cigarette, except the cigarette never actually makes contact with the lighter, but Keitel proceeds as if it did anyway, and the shot continues. Better than that. Keitel is trying to light \*his own \* cigarette, and can’t get his Zippo to light. After three failed attempts, he gives up and just pantomimes. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/17 "2006-10-27T18:19:31Z")
Thanks, I knew it was something in that vein (it’s been a few years…) ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/18 "2006-10-27T19:20:12Z")
In _Boiler Room_… The protagonist is instructed to copy the contents of his hard drive (his _whole_ hard drive) to a floppy, to pass on to the Feds. In a post-screening Q&A, the filmmakers were called on this. The answer, given somewhat sheepishly, was “Yeah, yeah, I know. I don’t know what I was thinking.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/19 "2006-10-27T21:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Joss pointed out in the Firefly commentaries (sorry, I forget which ep) one scene in which Wash is sitting at the helm, holding onto the “steering wheel” of the ship - only he isn’t. He’s sitting about four feet back from it, and the actor is holding his hand in midair in a “joystick” position. They simply couldn’t get a well composed shot in the right place, so they moved all the actors back a bit. [/QUOTE] As I recall that commentary, they’d intended to go back and CGI in a control stick, but forgot all about it during post. So that’s still a legitimate mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084/20 "2006-10-27T21:34:09Z")
**Dead Man Walking** : Sister Helen Prejean (the real-life nun whose experiences the movie is based upon) was a consutant on the film, and wrote a book about her experiences behind the scenes. In Sean Penn’s “final meal” scene, his character remarks about how good shrimp tastes and how much he wished he’d eaten it before his last meal. Sister Prejean remarked to director Tim Robbins that it would be highly unlikely that an adult man raised in the Louisiana bayou country had never eaten shrimp. According to Prejean, Robbins told her (paraphrasing) that he likes to toss in one or two minor inaccuracies into every movie he directs - since after all, a lot of people watch movies just to spot the inaccuracies. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-flaws-the-director-is-perfectly-aware-of/378084.md?page=2)