# Movie Snobs: What Popular Movies Are Fashionable to Dislike But You Still Do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610 "2009-11-23T06:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/41 "2009-11-24T06:58:08Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > [Oh really?](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119925/) :dubious:Of course, there is [the other possibility](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor): that it really does suck (said by someone who saw it before it was released so had no word-of-mouth or critics’ opinions to influence him beforehand) Bashing someone’s choice of a movie they admit to liking in a thread about liking movies that snobs dislike? ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/42 "2009-11-24T09:35:14Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I still love _Last Action Hero_ and think it’s a great solid 90s action movie with a clever premise. The movie was savaged by critics and still doesn’t seem to get any respect. C’mon, it’s got lovingly crafted shout-outs to half of Hollywood’s output from Bogart to the T-1000, the villains are so memorable (who can forget Charles Dance as Benedict with his glass eye), the kid sidekick is actually quick-witted and not annoying, and it’s classic Ah-nuld. > > _Long Kiss Goodnight_ bombed hard at the box office, but I put it up with LAH as one of the best full-throttle action movies of the 90s. The dialogue is snappy, Samuel L. Jackson is amazing as always, and Geena Davis is just brutal as the amnesiac assassin-turned-suburban mom. I rank it lower than LAH only because the little kid is annoying and lisps a lot. I haven’t seen these for a good while, but they were both very popular at my household. Long Kiss Goodnight is underrated. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/43 "2009-11-24T10:13:36Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > _Love Actually_, I’d take a railroad spike in the eye first. I halfway agree with you there - the Hugh Grant/Alan Rickman/Emma Thompson/Bill Nighy/Liam Neeson portions of the movie are good-to-excellent; everything else is crap. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/44 "2009-11-24T11:17:34Z")
Fifth Element Beetlejuice Heavens Gate I like them. But Chis Christoferson is the most wooden actor of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/45 "2009-11-24T15:37:33Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Beetlejuice It’s fashionable to dislike **Beetlejuice**? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/46 "2009-11-24T15:44:50Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > It’s fashionable to dislike **Beetlejuice**? My thoughts, too. I don’t know that it’s considered great art but I think most people think it’s fun and enjoyable. Even if they don’t like it, I don’t know any “snobs” going out of their way to look down on Beetlejuice. Also shouldn’t the thread title be “What Popular Movies Are Fashionable to Dislike But You Don’t”? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/47 "2009-11-24T16:07:48Z")
> [@Eternal](#): > > When _The Dark Knight_ was released there was a lot of hate going on for Tim Burton’s _Batman_ and Nicholson’s Joker. This came completely out of left field. Great movie, great Joker. Just not as “deep” as the hipsters THINK \*Dark Knight \*is. Personally, I thought _The Dark Knight_ was disjointed, shallow, and trying to beat the viewer over the head with its message. The Burton/Keaton portrayal of Batman was a lot more subtle and humanistic in many ways, especially since he didn’t go to great length or spend valuable story and character development time to try to rationalize how and why Batman had such equipment and means available to him. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/48 "2009-11-24T18:53:51Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I think most people who have actually seen _The Postman_ like it. > I think it gets a bad rap since it came out a mere two years after the failed _Waterworld_. I don’t think many people gave it a chance and thought “Oh no, Costner is doing another post-apocalyptic film? Didn’t he learn from Waterworld?” > and they never even bothered watching it dismissing it on it’s premise alone. Nope, I never watched it because I loathed the book. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/49 "2009-11-24T19:06:55Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Bashing someone’s choice of a movie they admit to liking in a thread about liking movies that snobs dislike? It’s perfectly fine that he likes the film and I’m not bashing his choice to do so. But to assert that _Postman_ lovers constitute a silent majority is, well, delusional. And this thread has more than enough of that already. 😛 😉 :d&r: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/50 "2009-11-24T20:43:33Z")
I’m a little confused. Weren’t Titanic, Forest Gump, and Dances Wolves massively popular, hugely grossing, Acadamy Award winning films? I actually like all the Matrix movies more or less equally. At least I don’t think the second and third film are any stupider than the first. The second film had one of the best car chases ever (even though by necessesity a lot of it was CGI). Starship Troopers. Any film by Michael Bay. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/51 "2009-11-24T20:56:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I’m a little confused. Weren’t Titanic, Forest Gump, and Dances Wolves massively popular, hugely grossing, Acadamy Award winning films? Well, we are talking about movie snobs–popular doesn’t always equal good. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/52 "2009-11-30T03:45:05Z")
Okay, I get it. Big box-office success…that’s the important part!..makes it fashionable to blast it on this site (not the bigtime critics), but you enjoyed it anyway. Or I, rather, in this case. Actually a pretty interesting subject, and I have a couple that definitely qualify: Return of the Jedi EVERY single discussion I’ve seen _anywhere_ about this movie has absolutely raked it over the coals (and of course most of them affirmed The Empire Strikes Back as the most super awesome bestest Star Wars evern by a million billion parsecs). I loved it. Both when I saw it for the first time and the final unedited version on VHS. Okay, here’s what you need to understand (and Mr. Lucas has mentioned this himself a number of times): The first movie is the _beginning_, ESB is the _middle_, and RotJ is the _end_. That’s how it works… ESB _has_ to be dark, both to show that the Empire is still a major threat even after losing their greatest weapon and to set up Luke’s confrontation with destiny…in other words, so there’d be a POINT to a third movie! And seriously, what’s wrong with it? A tense confrontation with the sinister Jabba, every bit as dangerous as the Emperor himself. A desperate fight against hopeless odds to save Han, the unlikely champion of the rebellion. An awkward meeting with the backward Ewoks, who fight like demons when faced with the evil of the Empire. (Aside: WHAT is so horrible about the Ewoks? Yeah, they’re cute, they were made to sell merchandise. And R2D2 wasn’t? Especially after Attack of the Clones, where the friggin’ 10-second Wookie shot made it clear that you didn’t miss a thing.) And of course, the final confrontation on the Emperor’s ship, where the actions of three men have a greater impact on the war and the fate of the Empire than a hundred Star Destroyers. If you weren’t moved by this, you weren’t paying attention. Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade I don’t think this was well-received here; the consensus, anyway, was that it was grossly inferior to Raiders of the Lost Ark. This was a rollicking movie, and after repeated viewings, I have yet to find one single grossly objectionable thing. (Okay, the way Donovan got skeletonized was pretty gruesome, but no worse than the other major character deaths.) In particular, I think the relationship between Indy and his father was handled beatifully. They bicker, they grumble, they get on each others cases, but deep down, they truly care for each other, and they end up saving each other’s lives. I never gave a damn about a minor schlub like Dr. Brody, so I wasn’t bothered by his turning into a schmuck. Bottom line, if you like a super-tough hero overcoming impossible odds and learning what true victory is, you’ll like it. [Note: I’d _like_ to include Temple of Doom, which had lots of great action and, as someone mentioned earlier, was the only movie where Indy defeats the evil completely of his own accord, but I could not…_could not_… **COULD. NOT.** stand Willie. You want a prissy spoiled brat, fine, but making her shriek and scream and whine for the entire goddam movie was the stupidest screenwriting decision I’ve seen in her life. (Kate Capshaw herself was flabbergasted by the number of times she saw “and then she screams”, never a good sign.) It’s the one IJ movie I could never watch more than once for that one reasion.] Re. Titanic: I think it’s sad how seemingly everyone’s afraid of using terms like “mediocre”, “lightweight”, “disappointing”, or “missed opportunity” these days. I was impressed by a lot of things about this movie. The workings of the massive ship, the costuming, the shipboard activities, the inescapable class divisions, and of course the plight of all the passengers who could not reach a lifeboat. All of which was shot to hell the moment that tedious love triangle came barrelling in. (Special mention of Caledon Hockley here, who was butchered nearly as badly as Willie. He was _painful_ to watch.) As far as I’m concerned using one of the grandest movie backdrops in history for a soppy romance was a sellout a thousand times worse than anything Lucas got from the Ewoks. What’s _worse_ is that whenever the movie can tear itself away from them, you can see real drama. The stuffy first-classers’ thinly-veiled contempt for new money. The hymn singers praying for a safe journey. The workers who desperately want to save the ship and are told that it’s impossible. The poor mother who can do nothing but sing her children to sleep and make their deaths peaceful. The captain who accepts and pays the ultimate price for his foolishness. _If_ this was the point of the movie…the broad spectrum of humanity, their motivations, and how they react to a horrific crisis…I’d include it, hands down. GameHat - I’m kinda surprised you said 300, as I don’t recall this one being blasted here (or anywhere). You can look for my review on IMDB if you like. I think “Fighting good, stuff tacked on not good - 5/10” sums it up nicely. Didn’t see any racism. ---
**Author:** ![Cullain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cullain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cullain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/53 "2009-11-30T07:22:59Z")
Shakespeare in Love - slight, but totally well-crafted. Little Miss Sunshine - same American Beauty - sure it’s a little shallow, but again I go with the well-crafted ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/54 "2009-11-30T16:10:57Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > Thin Red Line, really? Dunno if that really counts towards the OP, considering it’s supposed to be about films you feel guilty about enjoying as a film snob, and it seems to me that Terrence Malick sits in the Movie Snob Pantheon of Esteemed Directors. > > In fact, I can’t think of anyone I’ve met who says they love one or more Malick films who hasn’t also been a self-described film snob… the average movie-goer doesn’t have much patience for long, lingering takes with minimal dialogue. Right – and it’s the _opposite_ of pretentious to bash TRL for its artsy lack of any understanding of basic cause-and-effect or human behavior. You’re free to like it for your own reasons, of course, although I have trouble imagining any reasons not based on its arty/snobby (i.e. pretentious) reputation – but please don’t think anyone is being trendy or fancy in expressing disappointment that large sections of the movie actively make no goddamned sense at all, even as commentary on war. Here’s a link to a [previous post of mine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7905672&postcount=77) highlighting only one scene – multiple completely stupid, nonsensical things happen in that scene. All of _The Thin Red Line_ is filled with that sort of disrespect for the viewer. Some of it arguably falls within the purview of “director’s choice,” like when he shows that the AWOL soldier at the beginning got picked up by American forces and what follows is minute after minute of pensive smoking, when of course the interesting part of the story is HOW was he picked up – did the friendly natives out him, for his own good or out of fear? Did he turn himself in to spare them being questioned? Was he spotted? HOW did the interesting tension inherent in the setup get resolved? We’ll never know, because Malick isn’t interested in human beings, he’s interested in how cigarette smoke looks in air currents. Later, during battle scenes, Americans and Japanese run past each other within the frame, not interacting, as if they don’t see each other. But it’s not a commentary on how fear gives us tunnel vision, or on individuals turning a blind eye to the enemy so they are not complicit in killing – it appears to be simply bad editing. There’s a scene where an American has a Japanese prisoner at gunpoint – the prisoner is on his knees, flinching in humiliation and fear, and the American stands before him, rifle leveled. Will he shoot, and dehumanize himself, or will he try to make his way out of the battle encumbered by this prisoner? Neither, of course. A gunshot rings out off-camera, and the American falls dead. The Japanese soldier is still on his knees, apparently unarmed – did the shot come from somewhere else? Another American, shooting his fellow to save the prisoner? A Japanese sniper? The start of a new banzai charge? Does the former prisoner try to flee back to his unit? Do the other Americans notice the shot or the prisoner at all? No, they appear to be ignorant of anything happening and they were standing right there. What DOES happen? We’ll never know, because Malick loses interest in the puzzle he’s set up, and the camera turns away to show more meaningless running around. Throughout the movie, characters begin speaking moodily in a voice-over, and the camera pans slowly around and you see a _different_ character is actually talking than the one the camera’s been lingering on, requiring the viewer to constantly go back and readjust his or her memory of who said what. It quickly becomes difficult to track who feels what way or who said what, even if one cares deeply – but Malick hasn’t allowed us to identify with the characters at all, partly because we’re no longer sure which one is which, or who said/thought/voiced-over what as the gorgeous tropical sun set. Several times a character insists that something occur and then it never does, nor does anyone appear to be avoiding it – it’s more like the dialogue was forgotten or never even understood in the first place. It doesn’t appear to be an intentional comment on the meaninglessness of war, or the difficulty of organizing humans under stress; it looks more like Malick couldn’t be arsed to follow through on any logical sequence of actions. The whole movie seems like watching a regular movie while blasted out of one’s mind on cold medication – there’s the same distance from actual caring, the same inability to follow the plot, the same question to one’s self: “Why don’t I turn this off and concentrate on being sick and bored? Maybe I’ll pass out.” It’s not pretentiousness that leads us to dislike The Tin Red Line. It’s _consciousness._ . ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/55 "2009-11-30T17:41:10Z")
_The Postman_ was on the other day. I sat down and watched the whole thing, again. I even cried a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/56 "2009-11-30T17:41:16Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Throughout the movie, characters begin speaking moodily in a voice-over, and the camera pans slowly around and you see a _different_ character is actually talking than the one the camera’s been lingering on, requiring the viewer to constantly go back and readjust his or her memory of who said what. It quickly becomes difficult to track who feels what way or who said what, even if one cares deeply – but Malick hasn’t allowed us to identify with the characters at all, partly because we’re no longer sure which one is which, or who said/thought/voiced-over what as the gorgeous tropical sun set. Do you know how bad it was? Up until the very end of the movie, _I was sure that Adrian Brody and Ben Chaplin were the same character_. Think about it - the actors sort of look alike, they were dressed alike (obviously), and no effort was made to give them distinct personalities. It was only when one of them (Brody? Chaplin?) died did I realize that they weren’t a single character who had gone AWOL because his wife had left him. If every other actor in the film hadn’t been famous at the time, I probably would have gotten more characters mixed up. The John Cusak action sequence was decent, though. Only good scene in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/57 "2009-11-30T18:03:17Z")
Wait… I meant Ben Chaplin and James Caviezel. Kind of proves my point, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/58 "2009-11-30T20:12:11Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s not pretentiousness that leads us to dislike The Tin[sic] Red Line. It’s _consciousness._ Your description inadvertently reminds me quite well of why and how much I like _The Thin Red Line_. Your consciousness is not universal. That you think it is is where you cross the line into pretentiousness. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/59 "2009-12-01T00:35:25Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Your description inadvertently reminds me quite well of why and how much I like _The Thin Red Line_. Your consciousness is not universal. That you think it is is where you cross the line into pretentiousness. No, but the laws of physics, and cause-and-effect, and to some extent human nature, are. Go read my link and explain what’s cool about watching characters emerge from a line of trees and, moments later, turn back and look at the same treeline and exclaim, “we _can’t_ go through there!” What works for your consciousness about the rookies being afraid to leave the danger zone and go back to safety? What’s pretentious about finding it baffling that men standing in waist-deep running water would say “we can’t stay here!” as if they would, under any circumstances, do so? Who camps part way across a river? And then, while being shelled, they proceed to _actually stay there,_ soaking wet, risking getting killed, rather than taking cover in the dense nearby woods? What statement is the director making? When they agree to go back along the wire they’ve trailed behind them. and then inexplicably go at right angles to the path that you’ve seen them travel, what do you think is the plain, straightforward, unpretentious message? You know, a straight-up guy thing you can express without being a snob? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610/60 "2009-12-01T01:02:25Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > No, but the laws of physics, and cause-and-effect, and to some extent human nature, are. Your sense of movie continuity, motion from one scene to the next, and characterization in general are not as superior as you think they are. Also, it is possible to see a forest, not just trees. EVERY movie has continuity flaws. No exceptions. No, I’m not interested in arguing with you. It would be pointless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-snobs-what-popular-movies-are-fashionable-to-dislike-but-you-still-do/518610.md?page=4)