# Movie Superman being re-booted. Which direction will they go this time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434 "2010-02-10T16:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/21 "2010-02-10T19:54:22Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > I like the idea that since Superman doesn’t belong in the modern world, you should make it a period piece. Have it set in the 70s, 60s, 50s or 40s. It could be framed with an old Supes in the modern world reminiscing about his past glories. I see it more clearly now. A really old Supes is at Lois’ funeral. This makes him all nostalgic. He flashes back to the 40s, when they met. Then they go to the 50s,etc. It could be a Superman history, how he changed over the years. Four or five mini-stories. They could even have a different actor play him in each era. They could include an All-Star cast of Supes’ villains. If it must be more of a blockbuster type movie, then you have Lex Luthor elected President and he declares a War on Superman. The entire US gov’t is a formidable foe for even the Man of Steel. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/22 "2010-02-10T20:07:52Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > They need to use the [All-Star Superman origin](http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/all%20star%20superman%20_1%20origins.jpg) and just get on with the action. Morrison and Quietly used _four panels_ to tell everything you need to know about Superman’s origin. > > Actually, a movie with plotlines lifted from All-Star Superman would be pretty awesome. So long as they got someone other than that wooden dummy Routh or aging mopey whatshisname from Smallville to play Clark. That was a pretty awesome run. Not sure how they could make it work as a movie. I like the “Luthor as the real avatar of humanity vs Supermen the God” concept. There were so many great concepts in that run, especially the “Superman Squad” issue I’m not sure which would make the best elements to choose for a movie. While he was tall and and buff and handsome Routh was an awful Superman. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/23 "2010-02-10T20:25:23Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > If it must be more of a blockbuster type movie, then you have Lex Luthor elected President and he declares a War on Superman. The entire US gov’t is a formidable foe for even the Man of Steel. Yeesh. I’d have to put that under the ideas that **Tengu** is decrying. Superman going to war against the US is utterly, utterly inconceivable for the character. If Lex Luthor is president and declares war on Superman… Superman surrenders so no one gets hurt. This is who Superman _is_. He obeys the laws and follows the rules. He’s not angst-ridden and lonely, he doesn’t feel like an alien – he feels like he’s _Clark Kent_, Ma and Pa Kent’s kid. To borrow from JLU, Batman doesn’t think of himself as “Bruce” in his thoughts. Superman, however, thinks of himself as _Clark_, not Kal-El. And Clark is all about Truth, Justice, and the American Way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/24 "2010-02-10T20:31:44Z")
The latest Superman movie would’ve been a _lot_ better if they had played Luthor straight. He’s supposed to be a menace, not a buffoon. Clowning was the problem in Superman II, too. (By the way – see the Richard Donner reconstructed version if you can – much better than the released version) ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/25 "2010-02-10T20:42:12Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > _snip_ > > I want the next one to have Doomsday, and end with Superman dieing. This is what I would like to see. Kevin Smith wrote a script about it in the late 90’s but the studios rejected it. I don’t know if it was because the execs didn’t like the idea or the script sucked. I tend to think they didn’t like the idea because if they did they could have gotten someone else to rewrite the script. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/26 "2010-02-10T21:29:45Z")
The problem with Superman is that it’s inherently hard to create drama. He’s completely indestructible and strong enough to do anything he feels like, so fights against villains are all a foregone conclusion. Unless, of course, there’s Kryptonite involved, in which case it’s a foregone conclusion the other way. You can present him with human problems that can’t be resolved by strength, like _Lois and Clark_ and I presume _Smallville_ did, but then at some point you have to ask why you’re telling the story about Superman, instead of anyone else on the planet those problems apply to. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/27 "2010-02-10T21:36:52Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > …Kevin Smith wrote a script about it in the late 90’s but the studios rejected it. I don’t know if it was because the execs didn’t like the idea or the script sucked… Decide for yourself: [Kevin Smith’s Superman](http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/superman-lives-script.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/28 "2010-02-10T21:55:37Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem with Superman is that it’s inherently hard to create drama. He’s completely indestructible and strong enough to do anything he feels like, so fights against villains are all a foregone conclusion. Unless, of course, there’s Kryptonite involved, in which case it’s a foregone conclusion the other way. You can present him with human problems that can’t be resolved by strength, like Lois and Clark and I presume Smallville did, but then at some point you have to ask why you’re telling the story about Superman, instead of anyone else on the planet those problems apply to. It doesn’t need Kryptonite – you can have Superman fight a cosmically powerful foe (as noted above – both General Zod and Doomsday), or he can fight with limited powers. One silver age story that could potentially make a good movie is _Superman Under the Red Sun_ – Luthor is there as a serious threat, and Superman doesn’t have his powers through most of it. And there’s an interesting SF background. Superman is in real danger and gets to show his grit and resourcefulness. But it’s way too far from what the public expects, so I doubt if we’d ever see it done as a big bidget live-action film. (I could see it being animated, though) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/29 "2010-02-10T22:13:43Z")
I think there’s a problem with trying to interpet Superman (as a complex character) cinematically. It’s easy to show Peter Parker’s weaknesses and problems: they’re physical and can be shown on screen. Example: He’s conflicted about Uncle Ben’s death being partly his fault – that’s easy to show, visually, in a way that the audience goes along with it. Another example: He didn’t “choose” a secret identity; he already was who he was, he just became Spider-man on the side. It’s not hard to show Bruce Wayne’s dark side. We see it, we feel it. His secret identity (depends on the interpretation) is wealthy, frivilous playboy who happens to be an astute businessman. That’s not conflict: his conflict is with his darker urges. Very visual. But for Superman, the problem is fitting in. He’s an orphan, the last member of his race/species, trying to fit in. He’s chosen a secret identity that is 100% opposite of Superman. The conflict: who is he, really? Superman or Clark Kent? How does he fit in? Can he marry or have a normal life, when he’s constantly being called for help? These are conflicts that are very hard to depict visually – they work OK in a comic book (thought balloons) but they’re internal, not external, and hard to depict. And I agree with **Chronos** that’s it’s not easy to find enemies to fight, when he can push whole planets out of the way. The George Reeves Superman of the 1950s had limited powers: very strong, strong enough to bend iron bars, but not strong enough to lift locomotives. Over time, Superman has got way too powerful, and it’s hard to come up with villians that are a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/30 "2010-02-10T22:17:12Z")
1. Get the franchise away from Jon Peters even if you have to resort to paying the man to go away. 2. Don’t use Lex Luthor. Movie Lex has been firmly established as a buffoonish comic relief villain, whilst this does have some precedence in the comics, it’s by far the least interesting version of the character and it’s probably to late to change this as far as the franchise is concerned. For what it’s worth I thought Kevin Spacey did a pretty good _movie_ Luthor in the last film, and it still sucked. 3. Have a really good look at the Bruce Timm Justice League cartoons. They are IMO the best portrayal of the iconic DC characters I have ever seen, including most of the comic books. 4. Casting the right Superman is really important, and could be easily screwed up by going for the star lead. You need someone who can pull off the physicality of Superman as well as portraying Clark Kent. I can’t think of any major celebrity at the moment who I could see doing it convincingly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/31 "2010-02-10T22:21:41Z")
> [@enigmatic](#): > > You need someone who can pull off the physicality of Superman as well as portraying Clark Kent. I can’t think of any major celebrity at the moment who I could see doing it convincingly. Ashton Kutcher? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/32 "2010-02-10T22:21:50Z")
They need to remember that Superman has a rogues gallery aside from Lex Luthor. I think a Superman vs Brainiac movie would be a great idea. You have a cosmic villain who gives Superman a run for his money, the brains vs brawn theme, include Kandor and you could include some element of Kryptonian roots vs Earth upbringing conflict. I wish there was some way to do a Mxyzptlk-based movie without totally killing the franchise, but there probably isn’t. I think it would be neat, though, to have a Supes-vs-Mxyzptlk animated short as comic relief shown before the main feature. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/33 "2010-02-10T22:26:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Ashton Kutcher? You shut your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/34 "2010-02-10T22:30:29Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > You shut your mouth. Which part are you disputing: that he can play Clark Kent, or that he can pass for being as athletic as Christopher Reeve circa 1978? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/35 "2010-02-10T22:31:59Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > To borrow from JLU, Batman doesn’t think of himself as “Bruce” in his thoughts. Superman, however, thinks of himself as _Clark_, not Kal-El. And Clark is all about Truth, Justice, and the American Way. To borrow from Kill Bill: "Batman is actually Bruce Wayne, Spider-Man is actually Peter Parker. When that character wakes up in the morning, he’s Peter Parker. He has to put on a costume to become Spider-Man. And it is in that characteristic Superman stands alone. Superman didn’t become Superman. Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he’s Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red “S”, that’s the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears - the glasses, the business suit - that’s the costume. That’s the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He’s weak… he’s unsure of himself… he’s a coward. Clark Kent is Superman’s critique on the whole human race. " > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Which part are you disputing: that he can play Clark Kent, or that he can pass for being as athletic as Christopher Reeve circa 1978? Ashton’s a bit manic to play Superman or Clark Kent. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/36 "2010-02-10T22:37:47Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The worst part of the Superman movies was that not only was he overpowered, but his primary Villain, Lex Luthor, was basically used as comic relief, making the situation even more unbalanced. I know people think he is a douche, but John Byrne’s Man of Steel reboot was the perfect primer for a Superman film series. He was powerful, but with limitations. > [@](#): > > The best Superman movie was the 2nd one (“with the evil Kryptonians”) because it had a conflicted Superman, a powerful and serious villian and a situation Superman couldn’t solve just by punching through brick walls. Brainiac! Why not Brainiac?!? He is a global threat. They can tie him into Krypton like they did in the AS. The SFX opportunties are endless. > [@Lightray](#): > > They need to use the [All-Star Superman origin](http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/all%20star%20superman%20_1%20origins.jpg) and just get on with the action. Morrison and Quietly used _four panels_ to tell everything you need to know about Superman’s origin. Or do it like the begininng of the LOTR trilogy with a brief live action introduction. No voice over is required. > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …do what they have apparently been very afraid to ever do in a Superman movie. Give him a villian that can take him on mentally and physically AND use the fact that he is virtually indestructable and up the spectacle of destruction to disaster movie level. Like maybe…BRAINIAC! > [@Lightray](#): > > Superman going to war against the US is utterly, utterly inconceivable for the character. If Lex Luthor is president and declares war on Superman… Superman surrenders so no one gets hurt. This is why people like Batman better. Not a pussy! > [@enigmatic](#): > > 1. Have a really good look at the Bruce Timm Justice League cartoons. They are IMO the best portrayal of the iconic DC characters I have ever seen, including most of the comic books. The Timmverse was the best superhero telling ever. Batman in Justice League/JL: Unlimited was the best Batman ever published. WW was great as well. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/37 "2010-02-10T22:41:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Which part are you disputing: that he can play Clark Kent, or that he can pass for being as athletic as Christopher Reeve circa 1978? Nothing so specific; it’s just that he’s a piss-poor actor and absolutely dreadful to watch in _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/38 "2010-02-10T22:42:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > To borrow from Kill Bill: Bill’s thinking is stuck pre-Crisis. Which is appropriate, actually. I can see him ordering a hit on the DC writers who initiated the Crisis just for this. 😃 Anyway, as for the rest of the thread… Well… _sobs at Singer leaving the X-Men franchise for THIS… He diminished them BOTH by doing that, dammit… Don’t even have the solace of his Superman flick being a huge success…_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/39 "2010-02-10T22:46:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Ashton’s a bit manic to play Superman or Clark Kent. That’s what I’d thought, until I saw THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT. (I’m not saying he deserved an Oscar for it by any stretch, just that he can do “straightforward and low-key” instead of cashing the easy paychecks with his reliable schtick of manic goofiness.) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434/40 "2010-02-10T23:07:40Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > Brainiac! Why not Brainiac?!? He is a global threat. They can tie him into Krypton like they did in the AS. The SFX opportunties are endless. Cause his name is “Brainiac”. Recent comic films have done well by steering clear of the campier bits of their source material. A green man named “braniac” who shrinks cities is hard to pull off in a non-silly way > [@](#): > > Or do it like the begininng of the LOTR trilogy with a brief live action introduction. No voice over is required. Honestly, you don’t even need a origin story for Superman, more Americans probably know he’s an orphan from a destroyed planet called Krypton then can name the current Vice-President. If the movie doesn’t want to deal with it, they can probably skip in entirely and the audience wouldn’t mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movie-superman-being-re-booted-which-direction-will-they-go-this-time/528434.md?page=3)