# Movies: Child Heroes who are Killers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 17, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577 "2011-09-17T00:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monkeylucifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@monkeylucifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monkeylucifer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/21 "2011-09-17T16:09:56Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, in C.S. Lewis’ _ **Chronicles of Narnia** _, many of the children have to become warriors and take part in battles. > > Peter and Edmund certainly have to kill enemy soldiers in _ **The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.** _ Of course, at the time, their own father was back on Earth, fighting against the Third Reich with the British Army. The kids are probably sort-of used to the idea of war, and figure they’re just doing their duty, just as Dad is. When Peter gets his first kill, Aslan tells him that he must wipe the blood from his sword which seems to be a metaphor for clearing any guilt from his mind about taking a life. That is a pretty dark concept especially when you consider C. S. Lewis had a Christian agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/22 "2011-09-17T16:51:55Z")
I guess my round-about point is that we are showing children killing other people while the consequences or even the bare fact that they did kill is never mentioned or dealt with. I then wonder about the consequences or unconscious lessons learned by children (and even adults) of seeing their heroes casually kill with no repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/23 "2011-09-17T17:01:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I guess my round-about point is that we are showing children killing other people while the consequences or even the bare fact that they did kill is never mentioned or dealt with. I then wonder about the consequences or unconscious lessons learned by children (and even adults) of seeing their heroes casually kill with no repercussions. But Dash is a terrible example then, he didn’t try to kill, he pretty much just evaded. The goons in every case I can recall killed/injured themselves trying to kill him. He did not casually kill once in the movie no matter once. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/24 "2011-09-17T17:07:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > In _The Incredibles_, Dash kills close to a dozen guards flying those disk things. It is never acknowledged, recognized or dealt with. I’d say Dash’s killings are acknowledged and dealt with beforehand. His mother warns him and Violet that Syndrome’s minions are not Saturday morning cartoon characters – that they will be willing and perhaps even eager to kill them both, and that the kids must respond in kind. There’s no pretense there. > [@Miller](#): > > in _Superman Returns_, Superman’s illegitimate lovechild kills a \*\*thug \*\*by throwing a piano at him. (bolding mine) You misspelled _obvious psycho who had just violently assaulted his mommy and was clearly about to beat her further, if not kill her_. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/25 "2011-09-17T17:08:43Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > In both of those cases, the child is under attack by the people he kills…and in _The Incredibles_, at least, it’s pretty clear that the baddies intend to kill Dash and his sister. I haven’t seen the other movie, so I can’t comment on it. But Dash is definitely in a kill or be killed situation, he’s greatly outnumbered, and Mom has told him that the baddies WILL kill him and his sister, so he has Mom’s permission. What more does a boy need? Nothing. And though Dash didn’t kill the guy who was about to shoot Violet, I wouldn’t be surprised if he intended to; I would have. > [@monkeylucifer](#): > > When Peter gets his first kill, Aslan tells him that he must wipe the blood from his sword which seems to be a metaphor for clearing any guilt from his mind about taking a life. That is a pretty dark concept especially when you consider C. S. Lewis had a Christian agenda. Actually I think that’s purely practical advice. I can’t see Aslan telling Peter not to feel guilty about killing anyone, even a talking beast. That said, the Pevensies and their comrades don’t get all angsty about killing, but then none of them ever kill outside of war. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/26 "2011-09-17T17:57:37Z")
I don’t think that Aslan needs to restrict himself to a practical vs. metaphorical spiritual dichotomy. He’s perfectly capable of making it both at once. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/27 "2011-09-17T18:12:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t think that Aslan needs to restrict himself to a practical vs. metaphorical spiritual dichotomy. He’s perfectly capable of making it both at once. Yes, but in speaking to a mortal, it is sometimes meet to speak in a specific mode. Even Athena has to. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/28 "2011-09-17T19:55:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > How old is Robin of **Batman &** fame? He’s young enough that he’s Bruce Wayne’s ward, which would mean under 18 I’d think, and he and Batman have caused some deaths to supervillains and their henchmen. Batman generally has a “no kill” policy, at least in the comics, any deaths would likely be accidents or the villain’s causing his own demise type dealies, not something I think Robin would be considered the cause of. Also, there’s the issue of which Robin, there’ve been at least 4 (not even counting non-canon stuff like Dark Knight Returns). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/29 "2011-09-17T19:59:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I guess my round-about point is that we are showing children killing other people while the consequences or even the bare fact that they did kill is never mentioned or dealt with. I then wonder about the consequences or unconscious lessons learned by children (and even adults) of seeing their heroes casually kill with no repercussions. I’d be more concerned about showing that repercussions for self-defense are more severe than they are for initiating violence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/30 "2011-09-17T23:13:30Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Batman generally has a “no kill” policy, at least in the comics, any deaths would likely be accidents or the villain’s causing his own demise type dealies, not something I think Robin would be considered the cause of. Also, there’s the issue of which Robin, there’ve been at least 4 (not even counting non-canon stuff like Dark Knight Returns). The second Robin, Jason Todd, is strongly implied to have killed a violent rapist by throwing him off the roof of a building, although Jason insisted that the guy was startled by his sudden appearance and lost his balance. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/31 "2011-09-18T00:33:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > in _Superman Returns_, Superman’s illegitimate lovechild kills a thug by throwing a piano at him. Apropos of nothing: isn’t _illegitimate lovechild_ redundant? Like _female lesbian_, or _filthy Etruscan_? ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/32 "2011-09-18T01:44:34Z")
Dash directly kills at one of the guys by grabbing onto a palm tree at super speed, bending it down, and then letting go. The tree swats the disk out of the air. The others are mostly just outmaneuvered, aside from the one Dash gets into a fistfight with. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/33 "2011-09-18T02:04:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Apropos of nothing: isn’t _illegitimate lovechild_ redundant? Like _female lesbian_, or _filthy Etruscan_? I prefer to think of it as emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/34 "2011-09-18T02:51:52Z")
No, an illegitimate child is sometimes a lovechild, but not always,. And a lovechild might not be illegitimate. For example, Brother Cadfael’s son was conceived in love, though not technically in wedlock. And by Welsh custom, he is not a bastard, because his father acknowledges him. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/35 "2011-09-18T03:18:06Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Dash directly kills at one of the guys by grabbing onto a palm tree at super speed, bending it down, and then letting go. The tree swats the disk out of the air. The others are mostly just outmaneuvered, aside from the one Dash gets into a fistfight with. I have given this a lot of deep, unRhymerish thought, and on balance I don’t give a good goddamn how many of Syndrome’s murderous henchmen Dash killed in self-defense, on account of them being murderous and him acting in self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/36 "2011-09-18T03:26:52Z")
Murderous henchmen? The Guild will hear about this! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/37 "2011-09-18T08:34:17Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I have given this a lot of deep, unRhymerish thought, and on balance I don’t give a good goddamn how many of Syndrome’s murderous henchmen Dash killed in self-defense, on account of them being murderous and him acting in self-defense. Well I’m not the OP, but it makes me think maybe you aren’t interested in this thread. I don’t think there is anything _wrong_ with Dash killing the henchmen, but I do think it’s _interesting_ that a child is shown killing people in a Disney movie. I also think it is interesting to speculate on how such killing would affect a real child in Dash’s situation. I’d be interested in coming up with a list of other child-heroes who have killed. Since they are child-_heroes_ I expect most of them to be justified even necessary killings. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/38 "2011-09-18T11:55:59Z")
That’s where I’m going with this. I could see someone like Dash being really inured to killing by the time he’s in his 20’s and perhaps even being a bit too casual and borderline evil about it. And on the other side, it is interesting to consider that we show such things in movies and just gloss over the fact that a child is killing people and never address it. What is the unconscious message that we are sending? But then of course, we are a very violent society and adult heros kill with impunity and are celebrated for it, but god forbid we should show a pair of tits or (gasp!) a penis! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/39 "2011-09-18T15:38:44Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That’s where I’m going with this. I could see someone like Dash being really inured to killing by the time he’s in his 20’s and perhaps even being a bit too casual and borderline evil about it. > > And on the other side, it is interesting to consider that we show such things in movies and just gloss over the fact that a child is killing people and never address it. What is the unconscious message that we are sending? Honestly? I think the message being sent is “Karmically, self-defense is cool”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577/40 "2011-09-18T17:20:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Jodie Foster as [The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074806/). Her performance gave me _nightmares_ I’ve never seen the movie, but from what I’ve heard about it then one of the three deaths was an accident, and another was arguably not the girl’s fault. The third case was clearly intentional on her part, although the guy needed killin’. This is actually toned down from the book, which I have read. In the book the girl knows what she is doing and deliberately kills all three people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-child-heroes-who-are-killers/596577.md?page=3)