# Movies: do bad guys win? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241 "2000-02-29T10:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/1 "2000-02-29T10:37:00Z")
I wouldn’t say that I’m a movie buff, but once in awhile I like to watch a good movie. The only problem: they all end the same way. The good guys win. Aside from “Arlington Road”(I highly recommend seeing that one), what are some good movies where the bad guys win? * * * R.J.D. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/2 "2000-02-29T11:55:00Z")
Arguably, _The Empire Strikes Back._ * * * [The Legend Of PigeonMan](http://www.hotkey.net.au/~guanolad/pigeonman/) - **Shadow of the Pigeon** - Weirdo of the Night ---
**Author:** ![WIGGUM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WIGGUM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WIGGUM)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/3 "2000-02-29T12:32:00Z")
I would have to say that Edward Norton’s character in _Primal Fear_ won. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/4 "2000-02-29T13:42:00Z")
Ruthless People The Usual Suspects * * * “What we have here is failure to communicate.” – Strother Martin, anticipating the Internet. [www.sff.net/people/rothman](http://www.sff.net/people/rothman) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/5 "2000-02-29T13:53:00Z")
_Chinatown_ _Seven_ _Body Heat_ ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/6 "2000-02-29T14:27:00Z")
If you want bad guys winning, you really need to stick to the Film Noire category. Previous posters mentioned several movies - especially Body Heat and Chinatown - that fall into the category. Look at the black and white films of the late thirties and early forties, especially the detective/cop genre. The Killers is quintessential film noire, as is Sunset Boulevard (hey, the hero of the film is dead in the beginning). If Uke or Eve drop by, I’m sure they’ll have some suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![Neobican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Neobican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neobican)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/7 "2000-02-29T14:39:00Z")
How about any horror flick? Sure, maybe they did not win at the end but they took 8 teenagers with 'em! Or you argue that some really did not lose at the end… Friday the 13th parts 1 through 8. I know… smart-ass answer. * * * _“Wow! Spider-Man! Are you really friends with the X-men?”_ **"Not since Cyclops tried to use my viewmaster."** (Marvel Team Up #1) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/8 "2000-02-29T15:58:00Z")
“Glory.” Every last one of the good guys winds up dead. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/9 "2000-02-29T16:32:00Z")
I’d nominate Natural Born Killers, but I think the bad guys were supposed to be the good guys in that movie … or something. * * * I am the user formerly known as puffington. ---
**Author:** ![kinoons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kinoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kinoons)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/10 "2000-02-29T21:49:00Z")
Event Horizon – really scary movie. And in the end you dont get that nice warm feeling that the good guys won and the bad guys lost… * * * knuckle-dragging hose mongerer. SDMB Self-Righteous Clique ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/11 "2000-02-29T22:00:00Z")
Thank you, phouka…and your suggestion of _film noir_ is right on the money. Let me recommend PITFALL (1948), with Dick Powell and Lizabeth Scott, and Raymond Burr playing the coolest, sleaziest private eye ever! DOA (1950) is loads of fun…the hero, played by Edmond O’Brien, is already “dead” as the film opens, having ingested an antidote-proof lethal poison which leaves him with 48 hours to live. DETOUR (1945) is infamous for its portrayal of sleazebags on a downward spiral. ACE IN THE HOLE (1951), aka THE BIG CARNIVAL, has always been a personal favorite. Protagonist Kirk Douglas dies onscreen, lurching face-first into the camera, for the big finale! * * * Uke ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/12 "2000-02-29T22:55:00Z")
Off the cuff, I’ll mention a few that haven’t been mentioned: Alfred Hitchcock’s “Vertigo.” The Last Seduction, by John Dahl. Spoorloos (english:The Vanishing), by George Sluizer. make sure you get the dutch version, not the american version. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/13 "2000-02-29T23:33:00Z")
I’ll second that one, Arnold. That is a CHILLING movie. Is it even available in the US then? * * * **Coldfire** * * * _ **"You know how complex women are"** _ - Neil Peart, **Rush** (1993) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/14 "2000-02-29T23:36:00Z")
Sure enough, Coldfire, even available in video form at large chains like Blockbuster. Did you ever see the american version (Kiefer Sutherland, Jeff Daniels?) The ending was totally altered to make it “happy.” ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/15 "2000-02-29T23:39:00Z")
“I’m having an old friend for dinner.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/16 "2000-02-29T23:43:00Z")
Knute Rockne: All American Sorry-- I’m not a Notre Dame fan. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/17 "2000-02-29T23:48:00Z")
Oh yeah, and Gone With the Wind! 😉 (kidding…kidding…) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/18 "2000-03-01T01:02:00Z")
Well I just finished reading The Talented Mr. Ripley, and it could be argued that the “bad guy” won… * * * – “it’s all real” “I KNEW IT!!!” O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/19 "2000-03-01T13:03:00Z")
I can’t believe that nobody has mentioned The Grifters. * * * “He love people, all of them, washed and unwashed; he loves his wretched pack of sponging relatives. He shoots people, arrests people, but he doesn’t like it.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/20 "2000-03-01T14:10:00Z")
_Night of the Living Dead_. The hero “wins”, but is gunned down at the end by clueless “good guys”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241.md?page=2)