# Movies: do bad guys win? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241 "2000-02-29T10:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/21 "2000-03-01T14:55:00Z")
_Revolution_🙂 Seriously, shouldn’t there be something in the thread title warning about the large number of spoilers in the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/22 "2000-03-01T15:08:00Z")
Just because good guys live, doesn’t mean they win. I would think a movie where the good guy survives, but at a heavy cost where life is probably worse off would qualify as the bad guy at least having a major impact. Alien fits the bill. So would a fluff movie like Independence Day. As for the good guy losing to the bad guy in the traditional sense, I have to throw my vote to Braveheart. * * * Voted Rookie of the Year in MPSIMs and the Pit, along with Best One-liners. And I don’t plan on keeping this as my sig for long, just until the winning buzz wears off. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/23 "2000-03-01T15:58:00Z")
There are also films like _They Live_ or _Ride the High Country_ in which the hero dies at the end but the good cause triumphs. There are films like _All Quiet on the Western Front_ in which, until the very last shot, you think the hero will live, unlike most of the other major characters, but instead he dies in that last shot. It’s not that evil triumphs (after all, why is it so much worse that he dies than any of the other millions of soldiers), but that the viewpoint character has died. There are films like _A Clockwork Orange_ in which the putative hero (perhaps more like an anti-hero) lives, but evil triumphs, or like _House of Games_ in which the putative heroine lives but has turned evil. There are films like _Dr. Strangelove_ in which everybody in the world dies. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/24 "2000-03-01T16:23:00Z")
No Way Out, using the Cold War definitions of “bad guys.” * * * Chaim Mattis Keller [ckeller@kozmo.com](mailto:ckeller@kozmo.com) “Sherlock Holmes once said that once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible. The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it that the merely improbable lacks.” – Douglas Adams’s Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective ---
**Author:** ![PatrickM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@PatrickM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickM)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/25 "2000-03-01T16:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by spoke-: > \*\*Knute Rockne: All American > > Sorry-- I’m not a Notre Dame fan. ;)\*\* Blasphemer! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Abner\_Normal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@Abner\_Normal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abner_Normal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/26 "2000-03-01T20:15:00Z")
The Getaway… 1972 Steve McQueen and Ali MacGraw. Directed by Sam Peckinpah. Great movie. * * * In history they will not fill their heads with battles, nor in geography with fortresses, for it becomes them just as little to reek of gunpowder as it does the males to reek of musk. ``` - Immanuel Kant ``` ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/27 "2000-03-01T21:22:00Z")
U Turn … NOBODY wins ! * * * I am the user formerly known as puffington. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/28 "2000-03-01T21:26:00Z")
And **I** can’t believe no one (including me) has yet mentioned _Dr. Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb._ ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/29 "2000-03-01T21:51:00Z")
So what’s **Wendell Wagner**? Chopped liver? ---
**Author:** ![NickyLarson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NickyLarson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NickyLarson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/30 "2000-03-01T23:23:00Z")
The Last Temptation with Linda Fiorentino. What a **nasty** woman. * * * I drive **way** too fast to worry about my cholesterol. ---
**Author:** ![NickyLarson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NickyLarson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NickyLarson)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/31 "2000-03-01T23:25:00Z")
Wait a minute, I meant The Last Seduction. See, I start thinking about Linda Fiorentino, and everything goes astray. Good thing I wasn’t driving just now. * * * I drive **way** too fast to worry about my cholesterol. ---
**Author:** ![Lexicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ac8455/32.png) [@Lexicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lexicon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/32 "2000-03-01T23:32:00Z")
Just about anything based on Stephen King novel except for the running man. That movie sucked. But a lot of the others, like Pet Cemetary and The Shining and Carrie and Cujo all end on a weird note. Especially Pet Cemetary. * * * how did it start? well i don’t know i just feel the craving. i see the flesh and it smells fresh and it’s just there for the taking… VvvV “Winners never quit and quitters never win, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.” ---
**Author:** ![jayburner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jayburner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayburner)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/33 "2000-03-01T23:34:00Z")
how about Rocky…he lost ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/34 "2000-03-01T23:38:00Z")
City of Angels. Nothing good came out of that flick. * * * Voted Rookie of the Year in MPSIMs and the Pit, along with Best One-liners. And I don’t plan on keeping this as my sig for long, just until the winning buzz wears off. ---
**Author:** ![Glenoled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Glenoled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glenoled)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/35 "2000-03-02T00:11:00Z")
how 'bout The Blair Witch Project? not to give away the ending, it’s definitely not a ‘good guys finish first’ type movie… * * * I don’t sifffer from insanity… I enjoy every minute of it! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/36 "2000-03-02T02:51:00Z")
_The Godfather_: The hero survives, but he’s had to turn evil to protect his family. _The Godfather Part II_: The hero survives, but he finds that he can’t even protect his own family. His wife leaves him and he has his brother killed. _The Godfather Part III_: The hero dies of natural causes after a long life, but he finds that he can’t redeem his evil deeds by charity, and his daughter is killed. _Seven Beauties_: The hero (or perhaps anti-hero) lives, but only after being forced by the bad guys to kill his best friend. _The Third Man_ and _The Long Goodbye_: The hero survives and even triumphs in some sense, but he learns how evil his best friend is and has to kill him. _The Seven Samurai_: Only three of the seven good guys survive. One of those three decides to get out of the hero business, and the other two receive nothing except the satisfaction of having won. Star Wars Episode 3: (The probable plot is that) the hero turns evil and betrays his comrades. _The Wild Bunch_: All four of the heroes die (although they are perhaps more anti-heroes), although they manage to kill the bad guys (and a lot of innocent bystanders. Wendell “Chopped Liver” Wagner ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/37 "2000-03-02T03:23:00Z")
“Lonely Are The Brave” I don’t know that the bad guys actually win, but the good guy certainly dies. Kirk Douglas, Walter Matthau (sp?), Larry Hagman. What a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/38 "2000-03-02T13:48:00Z")
The Dirty Dozen. I mean, couldn’t they have let Jim Brown make it just a few more feet? * * * Voted Rookie of the Year in MPSIMs and the Pit, along with Best One-liners. And I don’t plan on keeping this as my sig for long, just until the winning buzz wears off. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/39 "2000-03-02T14:37:00Z")
Treasure of the Sierra Madre where no one relly wins… and Casablanca, where the guy you’re rooting for pretty much takes it upon himself to shaft himself. And no, not in ‘that’ way… (that Shaft is one bad Mother…) * * * Voted Biggest Smartass by all you beautiful people! * * * You always use violence. I should’ve ordered glutinous rice chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241/40 "2000-03-02T15:23:00Z")
Abject apologies, Wendell, I bounced right over that part of your initial post. Didn’t mean to ignore you, and I love chopped liver. And hey, what about **The Third Man?** The hero survives and even triumphs in some sense, but he learns how evil his best friend is and has to kill him! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-do-bad-guys-win/14241.md?page=3)