# Movies: Remove the music = not so hot **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852 "2007-04-05T14:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/21 "2007-04-05T17:10:03Z")
Unless you’re a real fan of 40’s movies, this one is likely to leave you a bit cold, but for my money the prime example of the notion I was driving at in the OP is the early 40’s _Laura_ which has, for me at least, the single most haunting melody ever written for a movie. The score supports the movie’s mood well enough, but if you visualize removing the music, you’ll find the whole movies drops flat. At least it does for me. One other piece from roughly this same era that I want to mention, just to see if anybody else has had a similar response to it, is Alex North’s score to _A Streetcar Named Desire_. I would be a fool to state that the superb acting and mood of the movie is predicated on the music, and except for the opening credits the music is rather much in the background and used for occasional effect only. But the music at the beginning sets a mood for New Orleans that lasts throughout. That same music was theme music for the old radio drama _Mike Hammer_ in the days before the more New York feeling _Harlem Nocturne_ (by the same guy who wrote the theme music for _Andy Griffith!_) became more or less synonymous with Mike Hammer. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/22 "2007-04-05T17:16:10Z")
There was an interview with Hans J. Salter in the magazine **cinefantastique** about 30 years ago. One line from that was “The movies we saved for them!” Salter did music for Universal, most notably their horror movies from the late 30s and forties. I can easily believe that the music helped these enormously. The original Universal **Dracula** had almost no music, and it was pretty sparse in the original **Frankenstein** , but then, those were pretty impressively made movies (despoite Browning’s unsophisticated direction on Drac), and didn’t need the music. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/23 "2007-04-05T17:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] Can you think of other decent movies that would drop at least a star’s worth (in the 4-star or 5-star ranking systems) if it weren’t for the music? [/QUOTE] I think a better question might be which movies wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/24 "2007-04-05T17:30:58Z")
I recently rewatched Michael Mann’s _The Last of the Mohicans_ and was struck by the importance of the film score (by Randy Edelman and Trevor Jones). Without the music, this movie just wouldn’t have the same punch. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/25 "2007-04-05T17:32:02Z")
_Kill Bill vol. 1_ ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/26 "2007-04-05T17:44:42Z")
[QUOTE=Yookeroo] I think a better question might be which movies wouldn’t. [/QUOTE] Well, I deliberately avoided mention of those movies where the music is insipid, overdone, mixed too high, repeated too often, lacks any structure of its own and any number of other faults that suggest they should never have been scored to start with. I won’t consider it a hijack if you’d like to start a list here of **decent** movies that could hold up without whatever music they’ve been saddled with. When you can be somewhat engaged with what’s going on in the movie and have a conscious thought something like “why is the music so loud?” or “what the fuck is the music for?” or “where did they get this music?” or the like, then you’re probably talking about a movie that would be better off without it. Sadly, I can’t think of a decent example offhand, so the challenge is offered to the rest of you. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/27 "2007-04-05T17:56:55Z")
I know the OP said “no musicals” but I think The Blues Brothers qualifies. It’s not a soundtrack where the songs were written for the movie. It’s just a bunch of songs that were in the movie. And there’s only dancing to two of them (Aretha & Ray). The movie would survive on its own, but it wouldn’t be anywhere near as good. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/28 "2007-04-05T19:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=Labdad] Speaking of Jerry Goldsmith, his score for **Patton** is nothing short of brilliant. [/QUOTE] Also, _L.A. Confidential._ Pretty close to a perfect musical score. Another great score: Patrick Doyle, _Dead Again._ Director Kenneth Branagh reveals his inexperience at many points; the moody, melodramatic score helps carry the movie over these rough patches. The score gets this movie an extra half a star, at the very least. [QUOTE=Yookeroo] I think a better question might be which movies wouldn’t. [/QUOTE] How about a movie that doesn’t have a score at all, and you don’t notice unless you think about it: _Dog Day Afternoon._ ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/29 "2007-04-05T20:24:31Z")
I’m just trying to imagine Star Wars without the theme music. _Scene opens on a white hallway. Some guys are shooting down it at a door. Door opens. Big guy in black armor casually strolls in. Crickets and people coughing can be heard in the background._ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/30 "2007-04-05T20:25:20Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] What?!? Both had great music, but I would enjoy either with the sound muted and CC on. Different strokes. [/QUOTE] The OP mentioned knocking it down a star w/o the music. They would still be good movies, but the music was very much part of what made them really good (to me). ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/31 "2007-04-05T20:28:19Z")
^OK, I see where you are coming from now. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/32 "2007-04-05T20:49:39Z")
Although the old Warner Bros. cartoons are a visual treat, they wouldn’t be the same without Carl Stalling and Milt Franklyn’s perfectly-timed scores. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/33 "2007-04-05T20:52:18Z")
No one has yet mentioned Anton Karas’ whimsically melancholy zither-based score to _The Third Man_? It sets the tone for the movie perfectly. John Barry’s scores to various Bond films, along with the almost invariably gorgeous cinematography, were often the best aspects of the entire production; specifically in the painful _Diamonds Are Forever_ and cartoonish _Moonraker_. And I daresay _Goldfinger_ would not be as iconic without the brassy, catchy score and Shirley Bassey’s unforgettable title. _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ is a phenomenal action film, but would be much diminished without John Williams score. Ditto for _The Great Escape_, which featured Elmer Bernstein’s best work. The score on _Heat_, primarily composted by Elliot Goldenthal and performed by the Kronos Quartet, transforms it from a competent actioneer/heist film with some great performances to an eveloping neo-noir experience. It must be seen in the dark, and preferably on the big screen with Dolby sound, to be appreciated. The score itself isn’t exactly memorable to listen to by itself, but the non-traditional score to the film _Brick_ gives the feel of dissociation and paranoia, amplifying the feel that you don’t know who to trust or what’s going to happen next. The score to the _The Triplets of Belleville_ is the movie, really; the oft-bizarre animation is almost just an accompanyment. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/34 "2007-04-05T20:56:18Z")
There’s a possibly apocryphal story about a theater owner in South Korea who thought _The Sound of Music_ was too long. He shortened it by cutting out all the songs. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/35 "2007-04-05T21:05:37Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] No one has yet mentioned Anton Karas’ whimsically melancholy zither-based score to _The Third Man_? It sets the tone for the movie perfectly. [/QUOTE] Damn, ten minutes too late. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/36 "2007-04-05T21:55:55Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] I won’t consider it a hijack if you’d like to start a list here of **decent** movies that could hold up without whatever music they’ve been saddled with. [/QUOTE] I think what I’m getting at is that I think that music adds at least half a star to most movies, especially the good to great ones. I tend to think that people underestimate the value of even a mediocre score/soundtrack. Plus, I think this thread is turning into another favorite soudtrack thread (of which there’s been many). That said, I can’t think of any movie offhand that could lose its music without it doing much harm to the quality of the movie. Probably why I find that question more interesting. 🙂 [QUOTE=Cervaise] How about a movie that doesn’t have a score at all, and you don’t notice unless you think about it: _Dog Day Afternoon._ [/QUOTE] There’s one. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/37 "2007-04-05T22:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=Yookeroo] That said, I can’t think of any movie offhand that could lose its music without it doing much harm to the quality of the movie. Probably why I find that question more interesting. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Well, I’m all for exploring that issue. Another thread perhaps, although I have no problem with exploring it here. My position would be that **decent** movies have at worst a bland or barely noticeable soundtrack music. There are many bad movies that might not be hurt by taking out their music any more than replacing their actors with other actors couldn’t hurt their quality all that much. But, being open to the idea, let’s try to formulate the question accurately. How would you reword this: **Name a decent movie (one that you would rate at least 2 1/2 stars out of four) that would lose no discernable effect or impact by having its music removed.** ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/38 "2007-04-06T03:23:32Z")
37 posts and no one mentioned A Clockwork Orange. Of course, that movie just wouldn’t work without the music, that would be like watching Bringing Up Baby without the livestock. ---
**Author:** ![Gentle\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gentle\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gentle_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/39 "2007-04-06T08:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] **Name a decent movie (one that you would rate at least 2 1/2 stars out of four) that would lose no discernable effect or impact by having its music removed.** [/QUOTE] good night and good luck ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852/40 "2007-04-06T08:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] The Sting [/QUOTE] Yeah, but imagine how much cooler it would have been with 1930s music to match the time period… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-remove-the-music-not-so-hot/398852.md?page=3)