# Movies that actually acknowledge they are "movies" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959 "2013-03-25T22:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/21 "2013-03-28T15:19:21Z")
if you don’t dumb movies down, some people are going to get very confused. if you go ahead and make a movie with a completely alien point of view, there will be some who would latch on to something they can relate to and either ignore the rest or completely misinterpret it. it’s hard to make a successful movie that is not accessible to the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/22 "2013-03-28T18:09:20Z")
> [@grude](#): > > The Star Wars prequels spent not one second on getting the audience to identify with their characters, quick name the protagonist in Phantom Menace?.. Obi Wan Kenobi. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/23 "2013-03-28T20:12:58Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > See last shot of film I’ll bite. How does the last shot of the movie relate to the OP? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/24 "2013-03-28T20:14:30Z")
The last scene(s) are an example of the way the OP was misunderstood by several respondants. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/25 "2013-03-28T20:22:16Z")
Pee Wee’s Big Adventure ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/26 "2013-03-29T00:08:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The last scene(s) are an example of the way the OP was misunderstood by several respondants. But does it fit in the right way? I haven’t seen it in years. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/27 "2013-03-29T00:09:05Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Pee Wee’s Big Adventure Again, how? I really think we need descriptions of how the movies fit. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/28 "2013-03-29T01:31:17Z")
What about [Koyaanisqatsi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi) and its sequels? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/29 "2013-03-29T08:05:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’ll bite. How does the last shot of the movie relate to the OP? Wilder and Little ride off into the sunset…and ride away in a limo. And lets not forget the use of a sound stage as a set and Graumans Chinese Theater..these things didnt exist in the time frame of the film. ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/30 "2013-03-29T10:06:03Z")
Does movies like Microcosmos or Le peuple migrateur might fit? > **[Winged Migration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Peuple_Migrateur)** > > Winged Migration (French: Le Peuple Migrateur, also known as The Travelling Birds in some UK releases, or The Travelling Birds: An Adventure in Flight in Australia) is a 2001 documentary film directed by Jacques Cluzaud, Michel Debats and Jacques Perrin, who was also one of the writers and narrators, showcasing the immense journeys routinely made by birds during their migrations. > The film is dedicated to the French ornithologist Jean Dorst. > The movie was shot over the course of three years on a... > **[Microcosmos (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcosmos_(film))** > > Microcosmos (French: Microcosmos: Le peuple de l'herbe, lit. 'Microcosmos: People of the grass') is a 1996 documentary film written and directed by Claude Nuridsany and Marie Pérennou and produced by Jacques Perrin. An international co-production of France, Switzerland, Italy and the United Kingdom, the film showcases detailed interactions between insects and other small invertebrates, and features music by Bruno Coulais. > The film was screened out of competition at the 1996 Cannes Film Festival.... ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/31 "2013-03-29T14:23:34Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Again, how? I really think we need descriptions of how the movies fit. Pee Wee’s Big Adventure is an absurdist comedy. When he completes his adventure and gets his bike back, a Hollywood producer buys the rights to his story and makes it into a movie. The last scene show Pee Wee and Dottie watching their story at a drive-in (bike-in for them) except it is done in typical Hollywood style and resembles a James Bond film. The point to that is rather interesting and shows how you can get sucked into an alternate reality by good moviemaking. Everyone laughs at how absurd the movie based on a movie looks even though it looks more like a regular movie and the main movie is much more ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/32 "2013-03-29T15:44:05Z")
I must admit, I am having a hard time understanding what the OP is asking about. There is actually a formula or recipe for making movies and usually entail a character. A character is confronted with an obstacle , as significant change, etc, they grow/change/confront the change and there is usually a final confrontation or point of decision. This formula was not invented by movies, it is a the case in almost all story telling form time immemorial. It is not about being safe or dumb, it is about what has over time proven to be what makes a good story. Now, that does not mean you must abide by the formula, of course, and some of the most interesting movies, novels, plays actually are ways that subvert the formula (Tristan Shandy, Memento Waiting for Godot) although even then, they almost certainly still follow the formula in an abstract way. But it is not easy to do and often it is more of a mess or boring or pretentious nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/33 "2013-04-02T22:12:07Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Wilder and Little ride off into the sunset…and ride away in a limo. And lets not forget the use of a sound stage as a set and Graumans Chinese Theater..these things didnt exist in the time frame of the film. I still don’t get how that fits the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/34 "2013-04-03T03:33:35Z")
I had a hard time understanding the OP. Several posters seem to have latched onto the interpretation that means the movie breaks the fourth wall, has the actors talk directly to the audience, or interrupts the story with moviemaking stuff. See the posts about Spaceballs. That’s the same way Blazing Saddles is being referenced. At the end of the movie, they get off their horses and drive off in cars. That’s “acknowleding it is a movie”. But that doesn’t appear to be what the OP really wants to discuss. I’m not quite sure what the OP means by his examples. What about Ripley in _Alien_? Is that a human character that is experiencing the events of the story, the plot? That’s basic storytelling. It’s not just something happened, it is what happened, who it happened to, how it happened, and how that person reacted to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mavic\_Chen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mavic\_Chen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavic_Chen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/35 "2013-04-03T11:02:48Z")
What I was trying to get at in the OP was that movies are capable of portraying literally anything the imagination can come up with but they repeatedly offer only the same type of human-based stories (did someone once say there are only seven different story types?). Films that are more imaginative seem off-putting, difficult to watch, or labelled as cult films. I was hoping for some examples of films that do this well; films that acknowledge they can take the story anywhere and in any direction not limited by the need to humanise the experience. Movies that break the fourth wall don’t necessarily fall into this category but I like **edwards\_beard’s** example of Spaceballs where they see the movie they are in, projected onto a screen within the film itself. **Max Torque’s** “Funny Games” sounds great where the characters actually rewind their own film and a lot like what I was after. Not a movie, but the animated series Aeon Flux by Peter Chung would be one. Stories presented in a way unique to the medium with no obvious protagonist - at least one whose motives change and who lives or dies at random - presented with truly alien situations and experiences. Movies like Fear and Loathing or Naked Lunch (coincidentally both about drugs?) where we follow an unlikable character and don’t really find out anything beyond the grotesque circumstances they find themselves in. Thanks **CJPAmadaeus** , I’ll check out Richard Linklater, have managed to miss A Scanner Darkly somehow. The Asimov quote from **NitroPress** is very interesting, although more to do with presentation than involvement perhaps? **Mister Rik’s** Patrick Stewart quote is it in a nutshell I guess. The best example so far would be **Ike Witt’s** Koyaanisqatsi kind reminds me of [Planetary Traveler](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0168124/) in some ways. Thanks everybody for taking the time to reply to my awkwardly voiced question, sounds like maybe I just need to read more and watch films less 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/36 "2013-04-04T10:52:30Z")
I’d argue that most of the specific “breaking the fourth wall” moments mentioned here are also things that could only be done in film. They are in fact taking advantage of the medium and showing something unique. Blazing Saddles, for example, is a story that pretty much couldn’t be told in any other medium. ---
**Author:** ![Private\_Bin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c0e974/32.png) [@Private\_Bin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Private_Bin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/37 "2013-04-04T13:04:38Z")
This feels like working in a video shop when someone on neat drugs wanders in after something. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/38 "2013-04-04T13:35:31Z")
Sorry OP, but this just sounds like cinematic masturbation. A film-maker without a story to tell is just jerking off with expensive equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/39 "2013-04-04T13:39:33Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I must admit, I am having a hard time understanding what the OP is asking about. There is actually a formula or recipe for making movies and usually entail a character. A character is confronted with an obstacle , as significant change, etc, they grow/change/confront the change and there is usually a final confrontation or point of decision. This formula was not invented by movies, it is a the case in almost all story telling form time immemorial. This is what is called [The Hero’s Journey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero%27s_Journey). Jpseph Campbell wrote extensively about it. It is one of the fundamental, archetypal story forms and it resonates with everyone because life itself is a hero’s journey. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959/40 "2013-04-04T14:48:05Z")
How about The Bear (1988). Or do you think that anthropomorphizes the main characters? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-actually-acknowledge-they-are-movies/653959.md?page=1)