# Movies that are anti-trope? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 23, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718 "2025-05-23T18:19:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/21 "2025-05-24T16:01:33Z")
Yes! Great example. The ending of _Manchester by the Sea_ likewise subverts tropes. The three films that Kenneth Lonergan wrote and directed – _Manchester_, _Margaret_, and _You Can Count on Me_ – all cut against expectations, as they focus on people’s inability to overcome their own limitations and bridge their gaps with others. He’s a remarkably clear-eyed observer of human nature. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/22 "2025-05-24T17:10:40Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > all cut against expectations Then does that become the trope of his movies … “people’s inability to overcome their own limitations and bridge their gaps with others”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/23 "2025-05-24T17:22:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _The Third Man_ was neglected for decades by most except for the small minority of devotees of British ‘Kitchen Sink’ era cinema and the early work of director Carol Reed. It’s also a visually beautiful movie with great sound work. And that zither score. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/24 "2025-05-24T17:31:22Z")
500 Days of Summer, an anti-romcom, upends the manic pixie dream girl, boy-meets-girl/boy loses girl/wins her back tropes. It gives the female lead her agency while showing her exercising it ethically, and the young man grows by failing and then getting back up. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/25 "2025-05-24T17:47:28Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > _Rocky_. He loses at the end. Similar to that is _Mystery, Alaska_. Small town whose culture is built around weekly pond hockey games, where being allowed on the team is the biggest honor the town has, gets a chance to play a televised exhibition game against an NHL team, on their home ice. The game ends with a slo-mo shot of the game-tying shot by the local team bouncing off the post of the net, so they lose. There’s a bit of a pay-off in one of the local players being given a spot to try out for the NHL team, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/26 "2025-05-24T18:00:14Z")
Spoilers inevitable, right? The Last Of Sheila kicks off with a guy’s wife getting killed; he later invites people who were there that night for a week of puzzle-riddle personal-secrets game-playing, only to wind up murdered partway through. One of the invitees starts parlor-room sleuthing to figure out whodunit, only to back off right as the evidence points to his own wife — but she promptly confesses to both killings, explaining that she’d realized the sadistic point of the dead guy’s weeklong game was to eventually out her as the killer. Now, from a tropey standpoint you’d maybe expect the puzzler who’s gunning for his wife’s killer to _succeed,_ which he didn’t — but he kind of did, by setting things in motion. And you’d maybe expect the amateur sleuth to solve the crime — which he did, but with the unusual twist of concluding, too late, that he didn’t want that result. So, okay, two tropes toyed with, anyway. The ending, though, reveals that, no, the guy who’s wife had been killed _wasn’t_ gunning for his wife’s killer; he was just playing a game that had nothing to do with that. Also, the amateur sleuth _didn’t_ actually succeed in solving that guy’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/27 "2025-05-24T18:13:03Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Also, “Last American Virgin”'s ending is anti-cliche. It’s the only reason anyone remembers that movie. Such an unexpected punch to the gut. Let’s go with _The Graduate._ At the end of the movie Benjamin interrupts a wedding and runs off with the would-be bride, Katherine. We’d normally expect this to be a happy ending but as our couple rides off into the sunset on a public bus their happy expressions change and they seem to have no idea what’s going to happen next. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/28 "2025-05-24T18:28:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Let’s go with _The Graduate._ _The Graduate_ is a film that is in the form of a romantic comedy with its awkward love triangle and hapless protagonist but instead of creating some contrived ending where everyone ends up finding happiness it allows Benjamin to be the obsessive, immature creep that he is, raised in a vacuous culture where the best wisdom a yo e offers him is “Plastics!”, and Mrs. Robinson forces Elaine into exactly the kind of loveless marriage that caused her to seek out a pointless affair with Ben. Elaine and Benjamin ‘escape’ by running out of the wedding and jumping on the bus only to realize that they are totally devoid of their own values and dreams, and have no idea what they are going to do next. > [@carrps](#): > > It’s also a visually beautiful movie with great sound work. And that zither score. Anton Karas’ zither-infused is one of the most haunting scores next to Ennio Morricone‘s score for \*Once Upon A Time In The West”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/29 "2025-05-24T18:39:03Z")
Those [William Inge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Inge) “passions on the prairie” plays always veer off from happy ever after endings. His characters start off either expecting happiness to somehow fall on them from out of the sky someday, or they’re making everyone around them miserable forcing happiness on their terms. In the end the protagonists go through character development and wind up with realistic contentment. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/30 "2025-05-24T19:20:08Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I never considered it within the context of _Casablanca._ Well, that’s because they have nothing to do with each other. Might as well compare it to _One, Two, Three._ > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Also, the amateur sleuth _didn’t_ actually succeed in solving that guy’s murder. I thought he did. I guess it depends on who you consider the amateur sleuth? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/31 "2025-05-24T19:58:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > This film is basically the anti-_Casablanca_, a movie which despite all of the adoration heaped upon it (justifiably so for the dialogue and the well-crafted supporting characters, no so much for the nonsensical plot and the cheery optimism upon which it concludes) is basically the source of so many tropes, imitations, and oft-misquoted witticisms that its history as an only moderately well-received B-picture is essentially forgotten among the throngs of enthusiasts loudly proclaiming it to be the best screenplay ever written, I don’t much disagree with your characterization of the film, but that “only moderately well-received” crack is hard to credit. The movie was nominated for eight Oscars, winning three, including Best Picture and Best Screenplay. If it were a B-picture, then it’s the best received B-picture in movie history. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/32 "2025-05-24T20:14:08Z")
He ends up with somebody named Frank Lee, who is never even shown. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/33 "2025-05-24T20:17:44Z")
_Duel in the Sun_ (1946) – Epic, anti-romantic Western has good girl Jennifer Jones falling for bad news Pegory Greck before they shoot each other to death while professing their love, an ending at least twenty years ahead of its time. _Vera Cruz_ (1954) – Anti-buddy film with mercenary pals Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster falling out during Mexican conflict. _Kiss Me Deadly_ (1955) – Scumbag PI Mike Hammer (Ralph Meeker) gets almost everyone he knows killed or kidnapped, never really has a clue about the case and is shot repeatedly by the femme fatale at the climax. _The Sword of Doom_ (1966) – Japanese samurai drama with psychotic master swordsman Tatsuya Nakadai going nuts. Consistently frustrating expectations, it features no heroes, no honor and an incredible (anti-)ending. _Chinatown_ (1974) – PI fails to wrap up case that spirals out of his control allowing evil to triumph. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/34 "2025-05-24T20:20:31Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > _Duel in the Sun_ (1946) – Epic, anti-romantic Western has good girl Jennifer Jones falling for bad news Pegory Greck before they shoot each other to death while professing their love, an ending at least twenty years ahead of its time. Did you like it? I found it almost laughable melodramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/35 "2025-05-24T20:48:40Z")
It has some great bits in it, including the opening sequence with Tilly Losch. Walter Huston is hilarious sin-killin’ Jennifer Jones. His over-the-top performance seems very knowingly tailored to the material and it is unfortunate the rest of the cast did not play at the same level. Despite flaws too obvious and numerous to mention, I do have some respect for the film primarily owing to Jones, Huston, its production values and especially the Russ Meyer-esque ending…but “like it” I do not. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/36 "2025-05-24T21:01:38Z")
Very reasonable synopsis. I concur, sir! ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/37 "2025-05-25T00:35:46Z")
I’ve brought it up a few times on the Dope, but in terms of westerns Unforgiven does the best job of subverting tropes. In whole bunch of ways but what makes it awesome IMO is how it subverts the who “white hat” goodies vs “black hat” baddies. There are no “white hats” everyone is bad, but at the same time still being compelling characters, with reasonable non-evil motivations, we root for. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/38 "2025-05-25T02:50:29Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Elaine and Benjamin ‘escape’ by running out of the wedding and jumping on the bus only to realize that they are totally devoid of their own values and dreams, and have no idea what they are going to do next. I loved that movie from start to finish, but when I got to that ending, I literally stood up and cheered. Also it reminded me of a certain Season 2 Finale on Apple TV+… ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/39 "2025-05-25T04:15:59Z")
I’d also give Zodiac an honorable mention as it uses Hollywood serial killer tropes to inject drama very skillfully into a fact-based narrative. You _think_ the protagonist is in jeopardy as they are artfully mimicking a Hollywood serial killer trope, where the protagonist is about to be launched into a life or death struggle with the serial killer ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718/40 "2025-05-25T06:41:59Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@DCnDC](#): > > > > _Rocky_. He loses at the end. > > Similar to that is _Mystery, Alaska_. Small town whose culture is built around weekly pond hockey games, where being allowed on the team is the biggest honor the town has, gets a chance to play a televised exhibition game against an NHL team, on their home ice. > > The game ends with a slo-mo shot of the game-tying shot by the local team bouncing off the post of the net, so they lose. > > There’s a bit of a pay-off in one of the local players being given a spot to try out for the NHL team, but that’s it. In the same category you could put _North Dallas Forty._ They come back for a heroic win but the holder flubs the extra point and they lose as time expires. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-are-anti-trope/1018718.md?page=3)