# Movies that praise "settling" and "knowing your place" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 18, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544 "2013-08-18T06:11:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/81 "2013-08-20T22:38:19Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > The Incredibles (not from the 50’s, but fits the profile) In The Incredibles, the mom didn’t quit being a superhero just to become a housewife. She quit being a superhero because it became illegal to be a superhero. > [@Krokodil](#): > > But what about the movies with the opposite message? “Settle for the plain girl and know your place,” “Know your limitations,” “Keep your expectations realistic”? A lot of surprisingly good movies have these downer message, including a disproportionate number from icons John Hughes and Spike Lee. > > \*\*Some Kind of Wonderful \*\* That’s the message you get from that movie? I think the point of that movie was “recognize what’s real instead of your idealized fantasy”, not “settle for your place”. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/59ef9b/32.png) [@FlyingRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/82 "2013-08-21T16:29:44Z")
I disagree somewhat with the examples in the original _Atlantic_ article that prompted this, although I do see where the author was going. Case in point is **Ratatouille** , which I think provides a _great_ example of “knowing your limitations” and embracing what you _are_ good at: Linguini. He may aspire to be a chef, but (unlike Remy, who is a born genius) he really doesn’t have the chops for it; what he _does_ turn out to be is a really good waiter (aided, quirkily, by his roller-skating expertise), and it’s something he seems to enjoy a lot. As any chef will tell you, good FOH (front-of-house) staff is essential to a restaurant, so both Remy and Linguini appear to have “found their place” in the end. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/83 "2013-08-21T16:40:15Z")
I think **Groundhog Day** should qualify. Phil felt like he was stuck in his weatherman job that was below his status and he could step over others on his way to better things. By the end of the movie he’s satisfied with his status, although he had to change his outlook on life significantly. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/84 "2013-08-21T17:52:27Z")
I would say that any movie that features the storyline of “Dad is a work-obsessed dickwad who spends too much tme at the office while ignoring their kids\*, however he overcomes his hard-charging ways because he realizes what is truly important…” is an example of a film that says it’s OK to settle. \*One of the kids is usually a 14yo boy (and we know that 14yo boys just sit around, pining to be with Dad); and the other is a 5yo girl who dispenses words of edifying wisdom, including the clinching “Dad, if you loved me you’d come to my dance recital and not be at your stupid work meeting” argument that eventually causes Dad to run from said meeting to make it to the dance recital (complete with worried glances from Mom and Daughter) about 10 minutes before the credits roll. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/85 "2013-08-22T02:23:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I would say that any movie that features the storyline of “Dad is a work-obsessed dickwad who spends too much tme at the office while ignoring their kids\*, however he overcomes his hard-charging ways because he realizes what is truly important…” is an example of a film that says it’s OK to settle. In what sense? I suppose if you’re saying that you’re settling for less work success by spending time with your family, then you’re right. That’s not the point though; the point is that if you’re so concerned about your work success that you neglect your family relationships, then your priority system is seriously fucked up and you should reassess it, which is what the characters in these movies always end up doing. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/86 "2013-08-22T04:09:06Z")
Lost in Translation. The Sixth Sense. The Secretary. (Well, sort of… but maybe not.) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/87 "2013-08-22T05:09:12Z")
Mr.Holland’s Opus? ---
**Author:** ![Rala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@Rala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rala)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/88 "2013-08-22T10:20:04Z")
> [@FlyingRat](#): > > I disagree somewhat with the examples in the original _Atlantic_ article that prompted this, although I do see where the author was going. Case in point is **Ratatouille** , which I think provides a _great_ example of “knowing your limitations” and embracing what you _are_ good at: Linguini. He may aspire to be a chef, but (unlike Remy, who is a born genius) he really doesn’t have the chops for it; what he _does_ turn out to be is a really good waiter (aided, quirkily, by his roller-skating expertise), and it’s something he seems to enjoy a lot. As any chef will tell you, good FOH (front-of-house) staff is essential to a restaurant, so both Remy and Linguini appear to have “found their place” in the end. I also disagree with their example of **Monsters University**. Did they stop watching halfway through? Yes, it’s about “an unscary monster [who] pursues a career as a top-notch scarer”, but Mike never actually achieves that dream. He fails out of scaring class, then goes on a quest to prove that he has what it takes … only he doesn’t. The movie is about Mike coming to realise that even though he works harder than anyone in scaring class and has flawless theoretical knowledge, he’s never going to be good at it in practice. But Sulley tells him that despite his natural talent, he couldn’t have accomplished any of what he did without Mike’s help. They take a job in the mail room and work their way up from the bottom, and eventually Sulley becomes a top scarer with Mike as his coach/assistant. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/89 "2013-08-22T12:03:00Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think we can count X-MEN: THE LAST STAND, where the mutant superheroes are offered the chance to give up their powers and lead normal lives; most of them say _‘no’_ and keep fighting the good fight; one of them says _‘yeah, okay, sounds cool, sign me up,’_ and honestly doesn’t seem to regret a thing at the end of the movie, where she’s just enjoying a little quiet time with her boyfriend. Since her physically touching another human for any prolonged time will _kill_ him, she was unable to have any intimacy with that boyfriend. And that boy, by tentatively accepting her, shows himself morally superior to the adversary, who abandoned _his_ partner on the spot when she was changed incidentally to helping him. Her sympathetic portrayal is part of the point: Yes it’s wrong to force you to assimilate for the comfort of others; but is it wrong to voluntarily choose it to ease real suffering? Should choice itself be denied just so the “wrong” choice is never made? > [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I think there is a subtle difference between the moral _You should settle for what you can get_ and the moral _You should go after what is important to you, not what other people tell you should be important to you_. Right. “Know what’s worth the price” is not the same as “It’s never worth the price”. Ambition for ambition’s own sake does not make for a compelling story. Your hard work and effort and sacrifice has to have a worthy goal for the audience to sympathize. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/90 "2013-08-22T13:15:04Z")
> [@Rala](#): > > I also disagree with their example of **Monsters University**. Did they stop watching halfway through? Yes, it’s about “an unscary monster [who] pursues a career as a top-notch scarer”, but Mike never actually achieves that dream. He fails out of scaring class, then goes on a quest to prove that he has what it takes … only he doesn’t. The movie is about Mike coming to realise that even though he works harder than anyone in scaring class and has flawless theoretical knowledge, he’s never going to be good at it in practice. But Sulley tells him that despite his natural talent, he couldn’t have accomplished any of what he did without Mike’s help. They take a job in the mail room and work their way up from the bottom, and eventually Sulley becomes a top scarer with Mike as his coach/assistant. Definitely. There’s a huge difference between “settling” in that case, and “finding what you’re good at and being excellent at that.” In your case, Mike realized that he wasn’t going to be a very good scarer, but that he’d be an excellent (the best?) coach/assistant. It’s not settling in that case, just changing direction. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/91 "2013-08-22T15:58:36Z")
Most of the movies listed have a different intended message than “know your place”. They would see their message framed in a more positive light, such as “your priorities are screwed up” or “find what’s right for you, not what someone else thinks you should do” or “recognize the real thing in front of you not the illusion you’ve been chasing”. But sure, rephrase things in the negative light instead. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/92 "2013-08-22T16:14:22Z")
That’s true, but it’s nearly impossible to think of a movie whose moral is actually “Stay in the place you’ve always been. You could do better if you tried, but so what? People like you shouldn’t do better. If you try to do better and we see any chance you’ll succeed, we’ll smash you back down because we hate your sort and we’ll do anything we can to see you fail.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/93 "2013-08-22T19:43:05Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > That’s true, but it’s nearly impossible to think of a movie whose moral is actually “Stay in the place you’ve always been. You could do better if you tried, but so what? People like you shouldn’t do better. If you try to do better and we see any chance you’ll succeed, we’ll smash you back down because we hate your sort and we’ll do anything we can to see you fail.” This message IS common in popular culture. But (I suspect) there are two things you can count on: [ul] [li]The message will be aimed at a particular segment of the population (e.g. black people of all genders or women of all ethnic backgrounds or any other group deemed “lesser” in the culture that produced the story); and[/li][li]The message will be put across by example. The character who Knows His or Her Place will be rewarded; the Uppity character will meet with disaster and pain.[/li][/ul] Example: the 1933 bestseller Imitation of Life, which was made into successful movies in both 1934 and 1959. Here we have a direct contrast between the Bad Black daughter who tries to “pass,” and her Virtuous Mother who, to the end of her days, calls all white people “Mister” and “Missus” and “Miss,” even those who she’s lived with for decades and with whom she’s gone from rags to riches. (Their riches, of course, not hers. She’s in harness as a servant to her end, which is probably hastened by the endless labor.) The Virtuous black woman who Knows Her Place is rewarded by getting a massive funeral, mourned by hundreds of other virtuous black people. (Of course she had to die to get this reward!) The Uppity daughter sees the error of her ways and is tortured by regret (and is probably unable to either earn a living or attract a husband due to her uppity ways). This-----showing Compliant Conformity rewarded, and Energetic Goal-Seeking punished, is probably the most common method by which the “settle” message is put across. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/94 "2013-08-22T20:07:40Z")
There are also tons of movies that portray ambition as something which leads to madness and tragedy. Was the Icarus legend ever made into a movie? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/95 "2013-08-22T20:09:39Z")
That’s silly… claiming a movie from 1933 has any relationship to today’s entertainment media with respect to race is absurd. Come up with one from 1993, 2003 or 2013 and maybe I’d take your point seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/96 "2013-08-23T03:01:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s silly… claiming a movie from 1933 has any relationship to today’s entertainment media with respect to race is absurd. > Come up with one from 1993, 2003 or 2013 and maybe I’d take your point seriously. It sounds as though you intend this as an answer to a post that claims something on the order of: _“today’s entertainment media have the attitude to race of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, and this is fact about today’s entertainment media is demonstrated by the 1934 and 1959 movies of the bestseller Imitation of Life”_ But that’s not even remotely close to what I was saying in my post. Recall that the thread topic is the whole range of movies, throughout the decades, and how some of them may or may not advocate or praise “settling” and “knowing your place.” The topic of the thread is NOT ‘today’s media and how today’s media are related to race’ (or anything anywhere near that, really). (Of course perhaps you weren’t responding to my post at all, but to some other–though I don’t see any others that mention both race and the year 1933, so…?) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/97 "2013-08-23T03:11:43Z")
Mr. Holland’s Opus, sorta. ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544/98 "2013-08-23T05:03:20Z")
City Slickers (“I’m not going to quit my job; I’m just going to do it better.”) [Oh God, You Devil](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087835/?ref_=sr_2). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-praise-settling-and-knowing-your-place/666544.md?page=4)