# Movies that thumb their nose at science **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430 "2006-12-16T21:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/41 "2006-12-18T01:48:31Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Basically, it’s just a justification for any contralogical premise of a movie that the poster hapened to enjoy. [/QUOTE] No, it’s the point that films, especially about non-existent phenoma like, oh, say, time-travellers, are that thing called “fiction” - as in made up, fake, not to be considered real. The mistake here, as I see it, is confusing science\* fiction\* films made to (however ham-handedly) convey a _“message”_ and taking liberties with films purporting to portray real science in a documentary or a biopic. And that it’s a bit much to get one’s knickers in a twist over them. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/42 "2006-12-18T02:00:56Z")
Well, if you’re so indiscriminate that any pseudoscientific babbling or ridiculous explanation for impossible feats doesn’t bother you, I’m happy for you. This whole treating-critical-thought-as-a-character-flaw, though, is something what you ought to work on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/43 "2006-12-18T02:18:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] -All external shots of the _Virgil_ show it travelling through some kind of brightly-lit transparent medium [/QUOTE] Was there any other way to do it? I mean, if they were going to do it at all. Besides, they had already handwaved the opacity problem with that sees-through-rocks machine . . . ---
**Author:** ![Malienation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Malienation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malienation)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/44 "2006-12-18T03:49:58Z")
What’s especially irritating is when the movie makes no attempt at all to include some real science when it would not have been much work or mangled the plot to do so. What do I like? Consider **Spiderman 2**. Wicked strong genetic freak stops train with strength and bodily fluids? Well…okay. But it has to take him 2 tries: the first one fails because the buildings his web attach to fail, so he has to spread out the load with multiple webs. That’s a stress loading issue. Okay, then. That’ll do. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/45 "2006-12-18T05:28:09Z")
[QUOTE=Malienation] What’s especially irritating is when the movie makes no attempt at all to include some real science when it would not have been much work or mangled the plot to do so. What do I like? Consider **Spiderman 2**. Wicked strong genetic freak stops train with strength and bodily fluids? Well…okay. But it has to take him 2 tries: the first one fails because the buildings his web attach to fail, so he has to spread out the load with multiple webs. That’s a stress loading issue. Okay, then. That’ll do. [/QUOTE] OK, but why did Doctor Octopus have to link his AI directly to his own brain in order to use it to control the waldoes?! And why did a supergenius like he never think to include a cutout or an off switch?! ---
**Author:** ![jlrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/22d042/32.png) [@jlrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlrepka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/46 "2006-12-18T06:39:55Z")
[QUOTE=Malienation] Consider **Spiderman 2**. Wicked strong genetic freak stops train with strength and bodily fluids? Well…okay. But it has to take him 2 tries: the first one fails because the buildings his web attach to fail, so he has to spread out the load with multiple webs. That’s a stress loading issue. Okay, then. That’ll do. [/QUOTE] If we’re talking about getting the science wrong in **Spiderman 2** , how could Doc Oc’s fusion reactor get out of control? The original fuel source is deuterium, but nothing is added to the system once it gets started except chunks of iron pulled in by the magnetic fields generated by the mini-sun. But iron won’t fuse under any P/T conditions… ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/47 "2006-12-18T08:22:09Z")
[QUOTE=jlrepka] If we’re talking about getting the science wrong in **Spiderman 2** , how could Doc Oc’s fusion reactor get out of control? The original fuel source is deuterium, but nothing is added to the system once it gets started except chunks of iron pulled in by the magnetic fields generated by the mini-sun. But iron won’t fuse under any P/T conditions… [/QUOTE] Not to mention that when you toss a miniature sun underwater, you don’t get so much as a little puff of steam. I’m still trying to figure that one out. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/48 "2006-12-18T08:35:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Was there any other way to do it? I mean, if they were going to do it at all. [/quote] Sure, it would have been difficult to portray the passage of the vessel if they had accurately portrayed magma as opaque, but it’s hardly satisfying when such a significant circumvention has to be used _just to make the movie possible_. > [@](#): > > Besides, they had already handwaved the opacity problem with that sees-through-rocks machine . . . Yeah, but the footage of the ship travelling through magma was presented as purely visible, not by magic sees-through-rocks machine. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/49 "2006-12-18T10:47:42Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Dude, [Intuitor.com](http://Intuitor.com)’s “#1 Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics Classic”–I give you [_The Core_](http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/core.html)… [/QUOTE] I love that movie. It’s the best surrealist comedy of the decade. Every possible cliche of cheap drama and bad science that throws in even cheaper jokes to add humor to a project that in no way possible could be taken seriously to begin with. The absolute best part is that it now stars a TWO-TIME Oscar winner. How sweet is that! “Bob?!?!” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/50 "2006-12-18T10:59:37Z")
[QUOTE=Rysdad] _Starship Troopers_ Small nuclear devices that can be launched from a shoulder-fired weapon. :rolleyes: Not to mention the fact that you can _outrun the blast_ by sprinting through a tunnel. And…Doogie Howser as a colonel? [/QUOTE] There was NEVER such a thing as a Starship Troopers movie. Never. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/51 "2006-12-18T11:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] There was NEVER such a thing as a Starship Troopers movie. Never. [/QUOTE] I’m still trying to figure out what post #27 is rambling on about. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/52 "2006-12-18T12:56:11Z")
Geez – I take it as a given that just about every movie is going to get their science wrong, and screw up on basic things like common sense and logic. It’s why I celebrate every good or even half-good science fiction movie. You think these current examples are bad? Go back to the 1950s cheapies for leaps of illogic and plots that required a derrick to support the Suspension of Disbelief. As a kid, I learned to use a sort of doublethink – movies required one set of rules, where dinosaurs and cavemen could co-exist, the laws of physics didn’t apply, and reptiles tricked out with rubber fins looked like real dinosaurs. The Real World had its own set of rules. My all-time favorite was **The Cape Canaveral Monsters** , where the captured teenagers manage to blow up the stronghold of the aliens plotting against our space base by building a hydrogen bomb out of the plastic belts. No kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/53 "2006-12-18T13:07:25Z")
In Independence Day, they upload a computer virus from an Apple laptop to the alien mothership. Apparently the aliens use Apples, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/54 "2006-12-18T13:12:35Z")
I dunno; willing suspension of disbelief is easy with some movies, impossible with others; I think for me, it hinges upon whether or not the plot is reliant upon the crappy science - _Starship Troopers_ - although it may be a terrible desecration of the book - is a lightweight war/action movie with tolerable pace; it’s riddled with stupid science, but none of it (that I can think of) forms an absolutely essential part of the story - you could repplace the giant bugs with some other enemy; you could replace the bug meteors with some other terrible weapon of mass destruction - replace the micro nukes with some other kind of bomb - and so on - and you would still have essentially the same movie. _The Core_, OTOH, is just propped up and totally reliant upon stupid science _just to make the damn thing work_ - the movie is just one long stream of deux ex machinae. It doesn’t even _try_ to engage me enough to let me overlook them. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/55 "2006-12-18T13:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > The Core, OTOH, is just propped up and totally reliant upon stupid science just to make the damn thing work - the movie is just one long stream of _deux ex machinae_. It doesn’t even try to engage me enough to let me overlook them. I don’t disagree with your point, but the pedant in me wants to point out that you’ve just said “Two from the Machines”. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/56 "2006-12-18T13:36:11Z")
Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/57 "2006-12-18T14:20:41Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I don’t disagree with your point, but the pedant in me wants to point out that you’ve just said “Two from the Machines”. [/QUOTE] sometimes, one god is not enough. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/58 "2006-12-18T17:11:10Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] A movie, or a book, has to make sense in the context of its own rules. We assume all the rules of our world apply, and that the creators will give some sort of justification when they don’t. It’s only annoying when a movie violates its own logic. [/QUOTE] I assume you meant this for **Walter** , since he seems to be the one having trouble with the concept. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/59 "2006-12-18T17:13:30Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] No, it’s the point that films, especially about non-existent phenoma like, oh, say, time-travellers, are that thing called “fiction” - as in made up, fake, not to be considered real. The mistake here, as I see it, is confusing science\* fiction\* films made to (however ham-handedly) convey a _“message”_ and taking liberties with films purporting to portray real science in a documentary or a biopic. And that it’s a bit much to get one’s knickers in a twist over them. [/QUOTE] Still not getting the concept of “Internal Logic?” Try this: consider that the most unscientific thing about _Star Trek_ is the propusion system, yet no one complains about it. Gene Rodenberry says, “There’s this stuff called dilithium, and it makes enough power to fuel a faster-than-light spaceship (by doing something that wouldn’t really allow you to go faster than light).” The audience says, “If you say so,” because it’s a pretty boring show if they’re just tooling around the solar system. That’s not what the OP is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430/60 "2006-12-18T17:28:42Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] In Independence Day, they upload a computer virus from an Apple laptop to the alien mothership. Apparently the aliens use Apples, too. [/QUOTE] Dude, what do you think the “U” in USB stands for? :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-thumb-their-nose-at-science/384430.md?page=4)