# Movies that wasted their premise by making the charecters into idiots **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526 "2015-11-14T04:06:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/21 "2015-11-15T00:52:04Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > {heavily armed UNIT squad surrounds alien headquarters on the far side of the world} - OK, disgusting alien weirdoes, come out with your pseudopods in the air! > > {sweet old lady emerges} - Hi, Johnny, I’m your Mum! You wouldn’t shoot your Mum, would you? _BANG_ {squad leader} - Good news, mum! Knee replacement surgery is wonderful these days! Now put your !)^#$ hands up before we see how medical science handles sucking chest wounds! ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/22 "2015-11-15T00:53:24Z")
> [@Captain\_C](#): > > I started to watch 28 Weeks Later. There’s a predictable zombie outbreak. But surely the military, having quarantined an entire island with the highest security needed from any virus ever has multiple checkpoints to prevent any sort of contagion from crossing multiple checkpoints. Nope, it’s wide open from day one. And the female lead knows that the little girl is immune to the virus and can be used as a cure, but rather than telling anyone, keeps it to herself allowing the virus to escape to the continent. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/23 "2015-11-15T00:53:54Z")
I’ve only read the novel so I’m not sure how this plot point is handled in the film adaptations of _The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo_, but one of the reasons I disliked this book was that early on the hero makes a certain assumption about the central mystery, which centers on the disappearance of a teenage girl from an island community years ago. The hero basically says “Well, she must be dead because of…reasons.” There was some stated reason that I can’t remember now, but it was totally flimsy – something alone the lines of “The alternative would have been a bit difficult, therefore it was completely impossible and we can disregard the possibility altogether.” It was immediately obvious to me that the big twist would turn out to be that the alternate explanation that had been so swiftly rejected was in fact the correct one.It turns out the girl had run away and was still alive.There are plenty of good mysteries that hinge on the detective character making a faulty assumption early on, and it’s not necessarily a problem if the reader spots where the character goes wrong. But the faulty assumption needs to seem like a reasonable conclusion based on the available information. The reader who spots the flaw in the investigator’s reasoning should be thinking “Wow, I’m smart!” and not “Wow, that guy’s an idiot!” (It doesn’t help that it takes HUNDREDS OF PAGES for this schmuck to make any progress on the mystery at all.) That said, this was a very, very popular novel, so clearly many people were not as irritated by it as I was. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/24 "2015-11-15T01:05:45Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’ve only read the novel so I’m not sure how this plot point is handled in the film adaptations of _The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo_, but one of the reasons I disliked this book was that early on the hero makes a certain assumption about the central mystery, which centers on the disappearance of a teenage girl from an island community years ago. > > The hero basically says “Well, she must be dead because of…reasons.” There was some stated reason that I can’t remember now, but it was totally flimsy – something alone the lines of “The alternative would have been a bit difficult, therefore it was completely impossible and we can disregard the possibility altogether.” > > It was immediately obvious to me that the big twist would turn out to be that the alternate explanation that had been so swiftly rejected was in fact the correct one.It turns out the girl had run away and was still alive.There are plenty of good mysteries that hinge on the detective character making a faulty assumption early on, and it’s not necessarily a problem if the reader spots where the character goes wrong. But the faulty assumption needs to seem like a reasonable conclusion based on the available information. The reader who spots the flaw in the investigator’s reasoning should be thinking “Wow, I’m smart!” and not “Wow, that guy’s an idiot!” (It doesn’t help that it takes HUNDREDS OF PAGES for this schmuck to make any progress on the mystery at all.) > > That said, this was a very, very popular novel, so clearly many people were not as irritated by it as I was. Sure, it’s a pretty obvious twist if you know you’re in a mystery novel, but in the real world assuming someone who disappeared without a trace decades ago is dead is a pretty reasonable assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/25 "2015-11-15T03:58:57Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Sure, it’s a pretty obvious twist if you know you’re in a mystery novel, but in the real world assuming someone who disappeared without a trace decades ago is dead is a pretty reasonable assumption. The character doesn’t know he’s in a mystery novel, but he knows that there’s a mystery and he’s been offered a powerful personal incentive to solve it. What’s more, he explicitly compares the situation to a mystery novel himself. And it’s not like he’s distracted from the truth by some promising lead, this bonehead bumbles around for nearly half the novel before he even begins to make progress. Although to be fair, every woman he meets is inexplicably eager to have sex with him, so I guess that would provide plenty of distraction. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/26 "2015-11-15T05:04:25Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I seem to recall yelling at the screen while watching _Silence of the Lambs_. Jodie Foster is supposed to be some kind of super special agent, who does every thing exactly right. That is, right up till the end of the movie, where she seems to forget any training she may have had and runs around like an idiot. > > Stupid, stupid movie. You’re half right. Clarice Starling (Jodie Foster) was still a trainee at the FBI Academy. She was originally sent to interview Dr. Lecter as something of a trick; Lecter would have known that an experienced agent would have come in with a particular agenda and refused to cooperate. I agree about the ending. The first time I saw it, I was saying to the screen “call for backup, call for backup, you have identified Buffalo Bill and have him trapped in a building but nobody else knows it, call for backup.” She did turn out to be something of a super agent, though. She was in a completely dark room with a killer who had night-vision goggles and a gun pointed at her head, but when he cocks the gun she manages to turn and get off a shot before he can. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/27 "2015-11-15T05:15:23Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The character doesn’t know he’s in a mystery novel, but he knows that there’s a mystery and he’s been offered a powerful personal incentive to solve it. What’s more, he explicitly compares the situation to a mystery novel himself. And it’s not like he’s distracted from the truth by some promising lead, this bonehead bumbles around for nearly half the novel before he even begins to make progress. > > Although to be fair, every woman he meets is inexplicably eager to have sex with him, so I guess that would provide plenty of distraction. It’s been a while since I read it, but ISTR Old Man Whatshisface makes it pretty clear that he thinks she probably is dead, he’s just enlisting Irresistible Protagonist Guy to find evidence one way or the other. So IPG spending the whole first half the book assuming he’s basically just looking for a body before coming to the “hey maybe she really could be alive” revelation seems reasonable. Not that the books don’t contain some real suspension-of-disbelief howlers but I don’t think that’s one of them. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/28 "2015-11-15T05:17:43Z")
Definitely the The Lord of the Rings. Only the hobbits were like, well, hobbits. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/29 "2015-11-15T05:39:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You’re half right. Well, I’m half-assed. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/30 "2015-11-15T05:46:14Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s been a while since I read it, but ISTR Old Man Whatshisface makes it pretty clear that he thinks she probably is dead, he’s just enlisting Irresistible Protagonist Guy to find evidence one way or the other. So IPG spending the whole first half the book assuming he’s basically just looking for a body before coming to the “hey maybe she really could be alive” revelation seems reasonable. Except the only evidence of her death was pretty much “I think she’s dead.” and “I haven’t heard from her.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/31 "2015-11-15T18:33:02Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s been a while since I read it, but ISTR Old Man Whatshisface makes it pretty clear that he thinks she probably is dead, he’s just enlisting Irresistible Protagonist Guy to find evidence one way or the other. So IPG spending the whole first half the book assuming he’s basically just looking for a body before coming to the “hey maybe she really could be alive” revelation seems reasonable. It probably would have bothered me less if the main character had just gone along with the assumption that the girl did not leave the island alive and realized later that this was a mistake. But he considers the possibility that she may have run away (perhaps meeting with misfortune soon afterward, which would explain why she hadn’t been seen or heard from since) only to reject this for no real reason. I can’t even remember what his stated reason was, but I remember being surprised by its flimsiness. And when I said it takes nearly half the book for him to make any progress, I didn’t mean that’s how long it took him to realize his mistake. That’s how long it took for him to figure out _anything_ new about the girl’s disappearance. Reading about this moron getting nowhere (with the case, if not the ladies) for hundreds of pages when the “surprise” ending was blatantly obvious from early on was excruciatingly dull. I forced myself through the whole book solely because it had been given to me as a gift. I have criticisms of _The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo_ aside from the idiocy of its hero, but it wouldn’t have been such a _boring_ book if he’d been more intelligent. I consider that a waste of a reasonably good premise for a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/32 "2015-11-15T18:54:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I was just reminded of a comment a friend of mine made about the 4th Harry Potter movie, _Goblet of Fire._ Harry spends the first three movies being told by every single adult he meets, “You’re a kid, you’re not trained yet. You’re not ready to handle things like this, so let us know if you need any help.” He ignores all of this and nearly dies over and over, when he could have gone to wiser heads for help. > > In the 4th movie, he realizes, “Hey, I’m just a kid. I’m not trained yet. I’m not ready to handle something like this…” so he goes to the adults for help and… they blow him off completely and make him compete in this lethal tournament for no damn reason. > > I’m also reminded of a Cracked solution for a lot of Harry’s problems: He’s reading a book titled “He who most certainly had a name: Tom Riddle, the story of the most evil wizard who ever lived.” Cracked also had a solution to _Goblet of Fire_: He should just stay in his room all through the contest. He said over and over he didn’t want to compete. If he stays in his room, Cedric doesn’t die, and Voldemort doesn’t get stronger. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/33 "2015-11-15T20:29:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > …and then I hacked his arm off. That’s why I can hand you this sabre now, because I took it from him after I hacked his arm off. He’s still _alive,_ you understand; I just thought you should grow up without a dad, just like I thought he should stop having an arm." Well he couldn’t attack him anymore, as a Jedi, it would be wrong to fight an _unarmed_ man. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/34 "2015-11-15T21:13:09Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except the only evidence of her death was pretty much “I think she’s dead.” and “I haven’t heard from her.” Yeah, I had trouble with the movie because I spent the whole thing thinking “Or maybe she’s alive and just left. Why has no one considered the possibility that she left willingly?! Come on!” ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/35 "2015-11-15T22:18:36Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You’re half right. Clarice Starling (Jodie Foster) was still a trainee at the FBI Academy. She was originally sent to interview Dr. Lecter as something of a trick; Lecter would have known that an experienced agent would have come in with a particular agenda and refused to cooperate. > > I agree about the ending. The first time I saw it, I was saying to the screen “call for backup, call for backup, you have identified Buffalo Bill and have him trapped in a building but nobody else knows it, call for backup.” She did turn out to be something of a super agent, though. She was in a completely dark room with a killer who had night-vision goggles and a gun pointed at her head, but when he cocks the gun she manages to turn and get off a shot before he can. Ehhh… how is she calling for backup? Pre-cellphone…it’s not like she had a radio in the car. And the super agent turn in the dark is actually a training payoff from the montage earlier if memory serves. You see her get “killed” in a training exercise because she doesn’t check the corners when breeching a room. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/36 "2015-11-15T23:07:26Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Ehhh… how is she calling for backup? Pre-cellphone…it’s not like she had a radio in the car. Use the phone in the house. If Buffalo Bill shoots her then she’s dead, Catherine Martin is dead, and Bill gets away scot-free. Even if she has to go to the house next door to use a phone, I think her first priority is to let someone, anyone, know where she is. > [@](#): > > And the super agent turn in the dark is actually a training payoff from the montage earlier if memory serves. You see her get “killed” in a training exercise because she doesn’t check the corners when breeching a room. I remember that training scene, but I’m not sure how it applies to being in a pitch-black room with a gun already pointed at her head. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/37 "2015-11-16T01:19:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > People who know me on this board know what movie I’d mention – a particular movie that only works because not only everyone involved is an utter moron, but everyone in the entire society is too stupid to live. …ummmmmm…_Citizen Kane_?.. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/38 "2015-11-16T04:54:37Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > …ummmmmm…_Citizen Kane_?.. _Gone With the Wind._ ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/39 "2015-11-16T12:50:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Except the only evidence of her death was pretty much “I think she’s dead.” and “I haven’t heard from her.” When a relative you loved dearly has been missing for a few decades it’s not unreasonable to believe them likely to be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526/40 "2015-11-17T01:00:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When a relative you loved dearly has been missing for a few decades it’s not unreasonable to believe them likely to be dead. When I initially brought up _The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo_ I was trying to avoid unnecessary spoilers, but since people seem to be confused on this point the assumption was not “She hasn’t been seen or heard from in many years, so whatever happened to her she’s probably dead by now.” It was specifically “She must have been murdered on the day she disappeared.” That’s a pretty big leap of logic considering that there was no body and (IIRC) not even any evidence of foul play. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-that-wasted-their-premise-by-making-the-charecters-into-idiots/737526.md?page=3)