# movies where the bad guy wins **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471 "2002-12-13T08:43:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/61 "2002-12-15T01:34:48Z")
**Bob Roberts,** unless I’m grossly misremembering it. **Rocky Horror Picture Show,** depending on how sentimental you feel towards Frank N. Furter. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/62 "2002-12-15T03:06:38Z")
One of Cecil B. DeMille’s first talkies was a religious epic(suprise!) titled “The Way of the Cross” Set in the time when Nero was Roman Emperor, it revolves around a good Christian girl and a high ranking Roman military officer(played by Frederic March). It was similar to the much later film “Quo Vadis” Nero’s wife(Claudette Colbert) lusts for the officer but he wants the good girl, and will seemigly stop at nothing to have her. The restored version contains some rather racy party scenes, and ugly arena martyrdoms. Nero(Charles Laughton) blames the burning of Rome on the Christains and they are rounded up and put to creative deaths. I kept waiting for the plot turn that would save some of the good guys, but it never came. Everyone good dies, including the girl and the Roman officer who has been won over by her faith. And Nero and wife are just fine at the end. Not even a bittersweet ending, fairly unusual for the early 30’s. ---
**Author:** ![njufoic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@njufoic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njufoic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/63 "2002-12-15T03:32:56Z")
How about Woody Allen’s **Crimes and Misdemeanors**? And it’s a pretty good movie to boot. -Andrew L ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/64 "2002-12-15T03:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > > * * * > > - American History X \* definatly. > \*\* I’d say definitely **NOT**. There “bad guy” in this story re-works his life, gets over his sense of prejudice and hate, and saves his brother from it as well. Unfortunately, his brother is pretty much immediately killed, but had that not happened, I’d like to think his life would have been a lot different and a lot less hate filled. It’s a tragic ending, but I don’t agree that the “bad guy” won. The kid he was fighting with wasn’t a bad guy, just a kid full of misplaced hatred. And I also seem to recall a shipment of pods being moved up to Washington at the end of the original _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_. It’s a depressing ending and a show of futility. The heros don’t succeed…I seriously doubt anyone at the FBI would believe a crock pot story this guy would tell them over the phone, and by the time he’d get to Washington to try and stop it (if indeed he did), he would be too late. There are a LOT of old kung fu movies where the villain wins, but seeing as how I watched most of them over fifteen years ago on USA’s Kung Fu theater, I can’t recall any of the names. I do recall one involving a team of good guys vs. a team of bad guys headed up by two twin brothers, and in the final battle, all the good guys died. _Night of the Living Dead_ could claim that the “bad guys” won, but it’s hard to say…depends on your definition of bad guys. Actually, all of Romero’s zombie films, and most others as well, end with the good guys essentially losing out. Sure, they may escape the mall full of zombies, but what happens when they land? In a world surrounded by inescapable evil, you always loose. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/65 "2002-12-15T04:04:31Z")
The Beguiled (1971) with Clint Eastwood ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/66 "2002-12-15T09:13:03Z")
_The Parallax View_ ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/67 "2002-12-15T09:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by broccoli! \* > \*\*Movies not yet mentioned… > > the _Alien_ series > > \*\* Well, in the first 2 Ripley wins, but rather a pyrharric victory, as everyone almost everyone she meets ends up becoming either alien chow or alien incubators. Alien 3 was pretty bad for all invovled, but she does manage to keep the alien away from Weyland-Yutani, which saves a lot of lives due to her sacrifice. Unless you consider the fact that the Derelict they found in Alien might still be there but there’s really no way to be sure because we have no idea how far away the ship was from the colony in Aliens. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/68 "2002-12-15T17:48:30Z")
In _The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover_, nobody was “good”, so I guess the bad guy did win. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/69 "2002-12-15T18:01:11Z")
**A Handful of Dust**. John Huston thus figures in not one, but two of the all-time great downer endings (along with **Chinatown** ). **Soylent Green** and **Network** are similarly structured: the flawed protagonist cracks the mystery, imparts what he learns, and is killed for his trouble, but will anybody be able or willing to act on it and fight the machine? The implication is… no. **One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest** (yes, Chief escapes, but at least two of the protagonist patients suffer greatly.) **Cool Hand Luke** Yes, **The Ninth Gate** ends with evil ascendant, more or less, but let’s not overlook Polanski’s earlier **Rosemary’s Baby**! **On Her Majesty’s Secret Service** – Ernst Stavro Blofeld and his henchwoman, Erma Bundt, gun down Bond’s bride and get away with it. (Bond finally got his revenge in the teaser sequence in **For Your Eyes Only**.) **Looking For Mr. Goodbar** – Diane Keaton was looking for love in all the wrong places. **Cop** and **Rush** – in which good cops go bad (to oversimplify a bit). **Star Wars: Episodes I, II, and III** – the Republic is subsumed by the Empire from within, Annakin Skywalker becomes its tool, and the Jedi are destroyed in everything but legend. Oh well, at least “Ani” lost that bowl haircut. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![IThinkNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ce73a5/32.png) [@IThinkNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IThinkNot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/70 "2002-12-15T21:33:09Z")
I suppose you could say Gone In Sixty Seconds, but that’s rather subjective… if you’re taking Nicholas Cage and his crew to be the bad guys (because they are, undeniably, car thieves) then yes the bad guys won. But if you’re taking Callitri to be the bad guy (because he was going to kill the younger brother) than the bad guys lost. And the plot thickens if you’re taking that cop (Delroy Lindo) to be the bad guy, because he surrendered and that doesn’t really count as winning. I am so confused.😕 ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/71 "2002-12-15T21:41:43Z")
The real bad guy in _Gone in Suxty Seconds_ was Jerry Bruckheimer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/72 "2002-12-16T04:03:18Z")
_rimshot_ ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/73 "2002-12-16T04:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, in the first 2 Ripley wins, but rather a _ **pyrharric** _ victory What does this word mean. I looked it up at [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), but it isn’t there. I like it. I want to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/74 "2002-12-16T04:59:41Z")
[Pyrrhic victories](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpyrrhic.html), by Cecil’s able munchkin, SDStaff Ken. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/75 "2002-12-16T04:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jayrot \* > \*\*What does this word mean. I looked it up at [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), but it isn’t there. I like it. I want to use it. \*\* A Phyrratic victory is one where you win the battle, but you expend so many resources and troops while doing so that a couple more victories will cause you to lose the war. An example would be taking an enemy position, but losing 50% of your available forces while doing so, or in politics/diplomancy, getting your way on an issue, but alienating most if not all of your friends and allies to do so. You win, but the costs of your victory outweigh the benefits. Cecil explaions… [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpyrrhic.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpyrrhic.html) The Battle of Bunker hill would be a famous one to most Americans (and yes, it was really fought on breeds hill). The Battle of the Black Sea (as depicted in the film “Black Hawk Down”) would be a far more recent example. The Americans lost the battle and several helicopters, but the Somalis had hundreds dead or wounded afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/76 "2002-12-16T05:01:32Z")
Oops, that was supposed to be a space, not a carriage return. Anyway, the link works (took me enough tries to finally get the #\*$!@ spelling right). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/77 "2003-01-22T16:04:17Z")
A Perfect Murder Presumed Innocent ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/78 "2003-01-22T17:17:59Z")
_The Omen_ Family-friendly, heartwarming movie. ---
**Author:** ![bristlesage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@bristlesage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bristlesage)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/79 "2003-01-22T17:32:33Z")
And now that it’s a film, let me mention _Chicago_. And it’s one where not only does the bad guy (well, really, woman, and even more really, women) win, but you root for them the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/80 "2003-01-22T17:42:43Z")
Damn, I was going to say Chicago. How about Titanic? Gallipoli (but the Turks are hardly a character) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471.md?page=5)