# movies where the bad guy wins **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471 "2002-12-13T08:43:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/81 "2003-01-22T17:47:14Z")
_Incubus_ with John Cassavetes (but I guess since it’s a horror flick, that’s a given). _Basic Instinct_ with Sharon Stone and Michael Douglas. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/82 "2003-01-22T18:10:29Z")
**Hamlet**? Now that you’re done throwing things, think about it - the bad guy _does_ win. I forget his name (and I only studied the play _4_ times in college!), but the Norwegian prince invades and takes over Denmark. Yeah, Claudius is dead, as is Hamlet, our hero, so there’s just no good feelings around. Yep - bad guy wins. Snicks ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/83 "2003-01-22T18:40:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*I just watched _Empire_ and the bad guy’s don’t win. The whole point of freezing Han was to get at Luke, and while Darth does manage to lop off his hand he winds up not accomplishing anything in the end. At best it’s a stalemate. \*\* You must have watched a different movie than the one I remember. As I recall, at the very beginning of the film the Empire lays the hurt on the rebellion in a _very_ big way. And yeah, Luke gets away, but only because of a very-fortunately placed weather vane. Couple that with the loss of a hand and the capture of one of the rebel’s best leaders and I’d say the Empire had a pretty good time of it. My word, did anything go _right_ for the rebellion in that film? TESB is a stalemate only in the same sense that Monty Python’s King Arthur fought the Black Knight to a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/84 "2003-01-22T20:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\*_A Fish Called Wanda_. Not only do John Cleese and Jamie Leigh Curtis successfully escape with the loot (we were rooting for them anyway), but even the villainous Otto escapes to become a chief of security in some repressive regime. (I think Michael Palin’s character also ends up doing OK.) \*\* Otto became Minister for Justice in South Africa and Palin went to work at SeaWorld, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Fiat\_Lux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea666f/32.png) [@Fiat\_Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiat_Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/85 "2003-01-22T20:38:41Z")
_Thief_: The bad guys don’t win, they (he) gets shot. But the hero has deprived himself of everything that mattered to him thanks to the villain, so he sorta won. _eXistenZ_: If you consider the two main characters to be the bad guys. If you consider them to have won. 😕 Confusing movie. ---
**Author:** ![Homer\_J](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c37758/32.png) [@Homer\_J](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer_J)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/86 "2003-01-22T20:41:56Z")
Spoilers on American Beauty below, dont read if you aint seen the film.! American Beauty? - is there even a ‘bad’ guy? The man who murders Lester(?) is certainly repressive and narrow-minded, but by the end we realise he’s just in denial, so who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/87 "2003-01-22T21:00:57Z")
“The Talented Mr. Ripley”. You are lead to sympathize with Matt Damon when he commits his first crime. The second one is almost understandable. But by the third one at the end… ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/88 "2003-01-22T21:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\* My word, did anything go _right_ for the rebellion in that film? > \*\* Only a slight bit of incompetence on the part of the imperials. Admiral Ozzel brings the fleet out of hyperspace too close to the Hoth system, apparently warning the rebels. If he hadn’t, one could presume that the fleet would have been in attack position before the rebels ever saw them, and far fewer would have escaped, if they hadn’t been crushed altogether. Granted this is all pure speculation, particulary since they had already found the probe droid. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/89 "2003-01-22T22:50:56Z")
Primary Colors 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/90 "2003-01-23T01:04:39Z")
…second on Swordfish, they were cold-blooded murderers, they blew innocent people up, all for the greater good? Captain Kirk taught us that the needs of the one sometimes outweigh the needs of the few, or even the many, I just hated Swordfish… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/91 "2003-01-23T01:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*A Phyrratic victory is one where you win the battle, but you expend so many resources and troops while doing so that a couple more victories will cause you to lose the war. \*\* And it’s a lot easier to find in the dictionary if you don’t mangle the spelling: it’s “Pyrrhic”. One film that ends with the bad guys winning - and unfortunately, the film is wrecked if you know this - is My Little Eye I’d recommend you don’t reveal that box unless you’ve seen a film in the last year starring Cleo (of Cleopatra 2525) and the Red Power Ranger. ---
**Author:** ![scablet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@scablet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scablet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/92 "2003-01-23T01:20:43Z")
**Requiem for a Dream**. _shudder_ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Firebat023 \* > \*\*And Reservior Dogs. Kinda. \*\* Did anyone really win in Reservoir Dogs? All of the major characters died except for Pink, who was arrested and had to take the rap for the whole caper. If you count the police as the “bad guys,” they weren’t especially victorious either, having lost at least a half dozen of their force in a relatively piddling diamond heist. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/93 "2003-01-23T01:34:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scablet \* > \*\ ***Requiem for a Dream**. _shudder_ > \*\* Only if the count the drugs as the bad guy. Otherwise, it’s more of things turning out bad for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![scablet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@scablet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scablet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/94 "2003-01-23T01:43:54Z")
Yeah, it’s more abstract, but I _do_ count drugs as the bad guy, or at least a tangible common enemy. Could be argued, since it’s not as if the drugs themselves benefitted from everyone’s lives turning to shit. ---
**Author:** ![SnugTheJoiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@SnugTheJoiner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnugTheJoiner)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/95 "2003-01-23T01:50:59Z")
Any film version of OTHELLO. True, Iago’s arrested at the end and presumably will be executed after they roll the credits–but hey, he accomplished his destruction of Othello and seems unconcerned about what happens to him. What about ROSEMARY’S BABY? Mia couldn’t escape the forces of evil and had Satan’s kid after all. On the other hand, the baby’s half hers, and she loves him–so is there maybe a note of hope at the end that he’ll take after her? Or is that just wishful thinking on my part? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/96 "2003-01-23T15:22:00Z")
Everybody always glares at me when I point this out, but the “heroes” in The Matrix are all cop-killers… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/97 "2003-01-23T16:39:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\*Everybody always glares at me when I point this out, but the “heroes” in The Matrix are all cop-killers… \*\* That’s probably because it’s like saying George Washington was a murdering traitor. I’m sure he’d rather that the soldiers who were merely the catspaws of the government _he_ was fighting had stayed at home rather than come out to get killed - but they didn’t, did they? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/98 "2003-01-23T17:12:49Z")
Didn’t the fist version of “Body Snatchers” end with the guy yelling at the camera to run for the hills, or something like that? Didn’t everyone die in ‘Night of the Living Dead’? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/99 "2003-01-23T17:23:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Firebat023 \* > \*\*Don’t forget Seven. > \*\* Oh man… I hated that movie for the weird mood it put me in. I guess it did it’s job though. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471/100 "2003-01-23T19:10:17Z")
**Kingpin**. Scumbag Bill Murray wins the bowling tournament. However, Woody Harrelson gets the girl, parlays his “Rubberman” fame into a lucrative endorsement deal with Trojans, and saves the farm, so I guess it turns out okay for everyone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-the-bad-guy-wins/142471.md?page=6)