# Movie's where white actors aren't the leads, that aren't "about race". **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916 "2016-02-23T21:28:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/61 "2016-02-25T21:58:49Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > “Forgetting” that the character is Black is not a good thing. Why? > [@](#): > > Do you routinely forget that characters are male when the plots aren’t about gender? Well, yeah. Don’t you? There factually _aren’t_ that many roles that aren’t about gender because: 1. There aren’t almost no productions without some sort of romantic subplot shoehorned 2. Most productions make overt efforts to highlight sexual availability of the actors. Since I’m not asexual, I of course notice the sex of the actor if it is being played up. 3. Genders are meaningfully and measurably different in their abilities, psychology and so forth. This is further reinforced by social factors. As such, in many situations the way that a woman would react and how she will perform will quite different to man. If the audience sees a man acting like they expect a woman to act or vice versa it forces them to notice the sex of the actor and wonder why. For example, a realistic movie set in modern America where the lead responds to stress at work by breaking down and crying when they tell their spouse about it is gender neutral. A movie where the lead breaks down when telling their friends about it in a coffee shop becomes jarring and unrealistic if the lead is male. It totally changes the view of the character from “typical American like millions I’ve met” to “Atypical and defining, variant personality trait”. This is even more applicable to historical dramas. But yeah, in those tiny minority of productions, like Alien, where there is no romance, no overt sexuality and either no gender specific behaviour or a good reason why that behaviour is co-opted, then the gender of the actor becomes quite irrelevant after about 5 minutes. Once it becomes clear that it’s not going to be a focus of the role then of course I forget it. Of course this is much more common with race because none of the points I make above apply to race. I don’t expect a Black man to react differently to a White man or an Indian woman to react differently to a Black woman. I don’t expect the typical White person to be stronger or more physically aggressive, and I don’t find Mongoloid people sexually attractive and Casucasian utterly unattractive. But yeah, on the rare occasions when I watch a production where sex is irrelevant, of course I forget about sex of the actors within minutes. It’s totally unimportant to the plot. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/62 "2016-02-26T08:30:40Z")
Depends on what you mean by “about race.” A lot of movies have racial commentary or jokes, but to me a movie about race is about colonialism, slavery, Jim Crow, inner city decay, the drug war, basically something that triggers high amounts of white guilt. Some people would say having black people without reference to their lived experience is erasure to make white people feel better. There’s non-Euro foreign movies. Kung-fu movies. Some buddy cop movies. A fair amount of popular black American actors are in neutral movies: Sam Jackson, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, etc. Would you say Jackie Brown and Slumdog Millionaire are “about race”? Animated movies: Princess and the Frog Aladdin movies Turok: Son of Stone (his VA was Native American too) > [@Dangerosa](#): > > The latest Star Wars new characters - the only “white male” was Adam Driver. (Oscar Issac is Latino) Harrison Ford is white. > [@Doyle](#): > > Don Cheadle in Hotel Rwanda. A movie about a race war isn’t about race? It has lines like “you’re not even a nigger, you’re African.” Isn’t this the one where white U.N. soldiers stand around being useless? There’s been a slew of “Africa is horrible” movies over the last decade, it’s practically impossible to avoid indirect commentary on colonialism, old and new. > [@Blake](#): > > But yeah, on the rare occasions when I watch a production where sex is irrelevant, of course I forget about sex of the actors within minutes. It’s totally unimportant to the plot. I can’t relate. Even in such a movie gender tropes and politics abound and I’m interested in how they portray them. Like every war movie ever made has the tough alpha male dude, a more reserved intellectual guy, a coward, etc. The story is going to make some commentary on masculinity whether it wants to or not. Similarly, a story with only women will also have a spectrum of character types from femme to butch. It’s going to say something about gender roles and norms, family vs. work, education, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/63 "2016-02-26T08:40:33Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I can’t relate. Even in such a movie gender tropes and politics abound and I’m interested in how they portray them. Like every war movie ever made has the tough alpha male dude, a more reserved intellectual guy, a coward, etc. The story is going to make some commentary on masculinity whether it wants to or not. > > Similarly, a story with only women will also have a spectrum of character types from femme to butch. It’s going to say something about gender roles and norms, family vs. work, education, etc. I literally have no idea what that means in relation to my post. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/64 "2016-02-26T09:19:52Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I literally have no idea what that means in relation to my post. Even in movies without romance or sex the story will have something to say about gender. You mention forgetting Ripley’s gender in Alien, even though it’s a commonly cited and analyzed feminist movie. It’s a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/65 "2016-02-26T10:21:15Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Even in movies without romance or sex the story will have something to say about gender. You mention forgetting Ripley’s gender in Alien, even though it’s a commonly cited and analyzed feminist movie. It’s a different perspective. Still no idea what that means in relation to my post. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/66 "2016-02-26T10:36:49Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > A heck of a lot of English movies and TV shows manage to cast Black actors in roles where race is a total irrelevance and never even mentioned. This despite the fact that a majority of English people are not Black. Not sure mow much a “heck of a lot” is, exactly, or how it compares to the US. I’m skeptical that Britain has a better track record in terms of casting minorities in their movies and tv shows than the US, but if they do, maybe it’s because they let off their racist steam [in their sports](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3008552/Racism-rife-English-football-350-incidents-Premier-League-grassroots-2012-investigation-reveals.html). You know what you don’t see in the US? Fans throwing bananas at athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/67 "2016-02-26T10:51:09Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > You know what you don’t see in the US? Fans throwing bananas at athletes. [How sure](http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/08/12/2450061/african-american-baltimore-orioles-star-says-fans-threw-banana-at-him-during-game/)are [you](http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7007219/fan-throws-banana-philadelphia-flyers-winger-wayne-simmonds)of that? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/68 "2016-02-26T10:54:50Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > [How sure](http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/08/12/2450061/african-american-baltimore-orioles-star-says-fans-threw-banana-at-him-during-game/)are [you](http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/7007219/fan-throws-banana-philadelphia-flyers-winger-wayne-simmonds)of that? Pretty sure. From your first cite: > [@](#): > > Banana-throwing is still maddeningly common in sports like European soccer, but such explicit displays of racist behavior are largely absent from American games now. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/69 "2016-02-26T11:02:11Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Pretty sure. From your first cite: None of which supports your claim that you \*never \*see US fans throwing bananas. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916/70 "2016-02-26T11:28:49Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > None of which supports your claim that you \*never \*see US fans throwing bananas. Way to miss the point. Also, I never said “never.” That’s your misinterpretation of what I said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-where-white-actors-arent-the-leads-that-arent-about-race/746916.md?page=3)