# Movies with stupidly large plotholes... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2001, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386 "2001-01-10T19:35:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/201 "2002-04-25T23:11:35Z")
Well, if you are going from the angle that Trashy is going to blow the city up anyway, you’re right, it doesn’t make sense. But, IIRC, they were on a mission of God to face evil. And what has God always demanded in every culture and every religion, in one form or the other? A sacrifice. So, essentially, Larry, Glenn, and Ralph were sacrifices. (Nick was already dead, and Stu never made it.) ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/202 "2002-04-25T23:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\* > > True, but it had just raided a merchant ship. If nothing else that makes the U-Boat a pirate vessal. > > Three problems with that. > > 1. If they weren’t going for stealth, why use a U-boat at all? Those thing aren’t exactly built for cargo transporting, and they’d probably have to run on a skeleton crew just to fit all those troops abroad (somehow I doubt they issue MP-38/MP-40’s to sailors on a sub). > > 2. During the intervening scene, when the map overlays the action on the sub, it sure looks like the they were submerging by the way the sailor were turning those wheels on the bridge. > > 3. I would think that if they weren’t gonna submerge, they have a least one lookout on the deck at all times. \* Das Boot \* shows four at any given time. > > I’ve got an even better plot hole. > > How did the germans manage to build that U-boat pen in the Agean by 1936 without anyone knowing? I would think the Royal Navy would be quite interested in something like that. \*\* AH HA!!! Dooku is vindicated!! Especially with point #2 - I had forgotten that they show crewmen spinning those cranks and stuff. ::lights cigar:: ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/203 "2002-04-26T06:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > My question: What in the hell is the Higher Purpose behind sending Nick et al to die in Las Vegas? It’s reasonable to believe that the bad guys would have died whether or not the good guys had come. There’s no reason to think that Trashcan’s decision to bring that bomb to Las Vegas was dependent on the heroes being present. I think Trashy in all his lunancy would have bombed Las Vegas with or without the heroes being present, thus fulfilling what appears to be God’s will. What “higher good” came from killing the good guys? There is none!!! Trashcan Man didn’t set the bomb off, God did. God used energy released by Randall Flagg to detonate it. Randall Flagg released the energy to kill one of his men who was speaking out against the public execution of Larry and Hillbilly Jim. So, obviously God is powerful enough to come up with a detailed plan that predicts everyone’s exact future actions (even Satan’s), but not powerful enough to just go down to Vegas and whoop some ass Himself. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/204 "2002-04-26T06:42:22Z")
Maybe the ‘higher good’ served by the good guys being present when the bomb goes off is that their standing up to Flagg caused some of the onlookers to ‘see the light’ before being incinerated, therefore saving their souls. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/205 "2002-04-26T07:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ScriptAnalyst \* > \*\* > > As I said, you were trying to give the film credit for something it didn’t bother to do: explain what Superman did that prevented the earthquake from killing Lois. > > By the way, I never said there was something wrong with eliptical story-telling. It’s not necessary to show details that are manifestly obvious based on what else is shown in the movie. But it is necessary to provide some kind of information from which the audience can mentally interpolate what happened off-screen. > \*\* IMO, _Superman_ provides us with what we need to know to understand the scene: Superman went back in time and saved Lois. The exact details of what he did are no more relevant to the story than the exact details of how Josh wins and loses his key games in _Searching for Bobby Fischer_, only one of which is shown. That Josh wins the final game in the first tournament and loses the first game in the rainy day tournament is what is important, not how. That Superman was willing to change the past for the woman he loves is the point of the scene in question, so the details of the mechanics involved are irrelevant to the point being made. Which isn’t to say that I like the scene; I don’t, for reasons explained earlier. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/206 "2002-04-26T17:14:13Z")
[hijack] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saltire \* > \*\*I’ve always said, “An optimist thinks we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.” \*\* [/hijack] Angus McKee: _So Beautiful and So Dangerous_? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/207 "2002-04-26T17:35:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monocracy \* > \*\* > Trashcan Man didn’t set the bomb off, God did. God used energy released by Randall Flagg to detonate it. Randall Flagg released the energy to kill one of his men who was speaking out against the public execution of Larry and Hillbilly Jim. So, obviously God is powerful enough to come up with a detailed plan that predicts everyone’s exact future actions (even Satan’s), but not powerful enough to just go down to Vegas and whoop some ass Himself. \*\* From reading the book, my recollection was that God was stepping in at that point- kind of a “enoughs enough” sort of thing where instead of providing hints and helpful portents to allow his/her subject’s to do the right thing of their own freewill he directly intervenes (quite literally through the “hand of god”) and sets off the bomb. Their deaths were foregone conclusions- but God’s direct intervention saved the whole, and made their deaths a noble sacrifice rather than a futile gesture. Besides the deaths of so many leading actors in the book, both bad and good, instead of some cheesy last minute save is what helped make the book a classic. Also, in regards to a prior point- I thought the immunity to the Superflu came as a result to childhood exposure to some disease (I forget which one)- or was this one of his short stories I am mixing in? _-me_ ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/208 "2002-04-27T00:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Their deaths were foregone conclusions- but God’s direct intervention saved the whole, and made their deaths a noble sacrifice rather than a futile gesture. I guess my problem is that I can’t get passed the whole “noble sacrifice serving a purpose” thing. To me, it would have been better if their presence and deaths actually resulted in something more productive than a simple appeasement to God. For instance, them simply being in Las Vegas could have set up things so that RF could be at Point A just when a meteor comes hurtling down from the sky to smack against his head, killing him instantaneously. Ding dong the witch is dead! It seems rather empty to just kill them “just because”, you know? That’s kind of how it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/209 "2002-04-27T12:57:29Z")
Just saw _Behind Enemy Lines_ with Gene Hackman on DVD. Laden with gaping plot holes. [list=1] [li]The carrier doesn’t have any ready search/rescue teams [/li][li]TWICE, they direct him to a rendevous, he arrives and calls in, and then they try to locate him by RDF. What the hell are map coordinates for?[/li][li]Hackman continually defers to some weird “UN?” admiral without even going up his own chain of command. [/li][/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/210 "2002-04-27T13:23:34Z")
I stopped reading after the first few pages. I was surprised noone (at least up til that point) hadn’t brought up the difference between a plothole and a break in rules that violates our suspension of disbelief. It is the latter of these two problems that plague most of the films cited. The only real plotholes I saw (assuming the facts were true) were the ones regarding “Keeping the Faith”, “I know what you did last summer”, and one other that I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/211 "2002-04-27T13:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*I stopped reading after the first few pages. I was surprised noone (at least up til that point) hadn’t brought up the difference between a plothole and a break in rules that violates our suspension of disbelief. It is the latter of these two problems that plague most of the films cited. The only real plotholes I saw (assuming the facts were true) were the ones regarding “Keeping the Faith”, “I know what you did last summer”, and one other that I can’t remember. \*\* Might it be the train ride to England that Ben Affleck took in _Pearl Harbor_? 😉 Though you are right of course: the above isn’t really a plot hole but rather a very ill-thought out bit of movie-making. Though the Superman stuff likely is a plot hole… but when you do time travel, you’re practically inviting them in. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/212 "2002-04-27T15:39:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > **What, nobody remembers _Jaws: The Revenge_?** _ **I** _ remember _Jaws: The Revenge_. It gave me, if nothing else, one of my favorite Roger Ebert quotes of all time: > [@](#): > > I believe that the shark wants revenge against Mrs. Brody. I do. I really do believe it. After all, her husband was one of the men who hunted this shark and killed it, blowing it to bits. And what shark wouldn’t want revenge against the survivors of the men who killed it? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/213 "2002-04-28T04:29:45Z")
OK, I’ve gone back and rewatched _Superman_. I conceed that it’s a plot hole, but still don’t think it qualifies as a “stupidly large plot hole”. Kidcharlemagne: I agree with you. Most of the threads that ask for a specific type of criticism get derailed into “movies/actors/scenes/songs, etc. that I dislike,” regardless of the specific criteria set forth in the OP. Thus, “actors with limited range” becomes “actors I don’t like” or “movies with incomprehensible plots” becomes “movies with implausible premises” or “movies I dislike for some reason, so I’ll use any opportunity to criticize them”. I am not implying that any specific post here is doing this, just that it seems to be a trend among threads of this type. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2002, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/214 "2002-04-28T05:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > For instance, them simply being in Las Vegas could have set up things so that RF could be at Point A just when a meteor comes hurtling down from the sky to smack against his head, killing him instantaneously. Ding dong the witch is dead! > > It seems rather empty to just kill them “just because”, you know? That’s kind of how it seems to me. I always got the impression that the sacrifice was meant to say to God, “Look, we know we fucked up this world, but we want a second chance. We’re really, really serious. So, in order to prove how serious we are, how much we care about the survivors, and how much we want this to work, we’ll pay with the only thing we have left—our lives.” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/215 "2002-06-28T05:58:03Z")
I’ve always wondered how, in the Matrix, the bodies of the sleepers in the matrix manage to match their bodies out of the matrix. That’s quite a trick. I know if I was living in my mind, my mental image would slowly drift away from reality. It would be a real shock to be confronted with the difference. I appreciate the fact that they implied that the cool, black threads were only possible in fantasy, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2002, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/216 "2002-06-28T13:41:31Z")
It’s worse than that. it wouldn’t merely be a case of drifting, it would be much worse than that. Most people in the matrix live their whole lives in it, so they would have no idea of what they “really” looked like to form a mental match. But they don’t have to. Like other physical object in the matrix, their physical appearance is supplied by the Matrix itself, which matches the computer image to the physical one. On the other hand, if I were living in a permanent computer simulation, I’d look a lot like Tom Cruise if he were 6’ 2" and built like a top heavyweight boxer. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/217 "2009-11-20T05:06:20Z")
RESURRECT: Day after Tomorrow, 2012, discuss… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/218 "2009-11-20T05:24:37Z")
Before this gets closed, I’d just like to not congratulate you for your attempt at cleverness. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/219 "2009-11-20T05:29:46Z")
> [@c\_goat](#): > > I don’t really see the plothole in Enemy of the State: > > The bad guy wanted what Will Smith had. Not the gov’t. If the gov’t got it, then the bad guy would be in jail rather quickly. The bad guy used his position in the gov’t to track Will Smith with the gov’t equipment. He could do so because he was the one in charge of that equipment and responsible for approving it’s use. If he wanted to have Will Smith arrested, then he would have to get a warrant and then the police would get the tape and bad guy is in big trouble. He didn’t send the police after him (if I remember correctly) just his cronies who were in cahoots with him. If he did eventually send the police, it was already after Will Smith was framed for a crime and/or they recovered the disk. > > I haven’t seen the movie in a while, but that’s how I remember it. And remember that in that movie Will Smith was a lawyer with a big firm and his wife was with the ACLU. The couple could easily have made a big fuss about any arrest which in turn could have brought the bad guy’s crime to light. The villain was trying to keep his culpability in the murder secret, naturally. Also, if I recall, they did try to follow procedure (somewhat) by having the cronies pretend to be cops and ask Will Smith if they could look at his bags, but being a lawyer he told them to get lost. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386/220 "2009-11-20T15:04:40Z")
I hope we don’t have to wait “28 Days Later” for this thread to be capped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-with-stupidly-large-plotholes/49386.md?page=12)