# Movies without the plot armor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978 "2017-09-10T01:13:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/41 "2017-09-11T21:22:20Z")
Right, but this is why the concept of “plot armor” doesn’t make sense in a coherent story. You’re telling the story of a person, and if they die the story of that person is now over. Introducing a new main character in the middle of the story makes it a different story. If Harry Potter gets killed in the middle of book 4, then it’s not the Harry Potter series, it’s a different story. A story should be about the most interesting events in a person’s life, because if they aren’t you should stop telling the current story and switch to the other more interesting story. This doesn’t mean the most action packed, a story about a retired former hero might be more interesting than a story about his cookie-cutter heroics in his prime. Where the concept makes sense is in serialized fiction, especially when it isn’t produced by a single author’s vision. Why does the Joker always escape from Arkham Asylum? Because Batman has to fight the Joker and then Batman has to defeat the Joker. If Batman fought the Joker and put him in prison permanently or killed him then the stories of Batman fighting the Joker are over. And so the Joker has to escape, or turn out to have miraculously escaped the explosion. That’s plot armor. You can’t really defeat the Joker, because there’s always another issue next month and Batman has to fight somebody. The only time you can permanently defeat the Joker is in a stand-alone work. So Nolan’s Batman or Burton’s Batman can permanently defeat the Joker. But a reboot will happen soon enough with a new Joker and a new Batman. For something like Game of Thrones, we have several PoV characters. Yeah, Ned Stark got himself killed. But that wasn’t because the author didn’t believe in plot armor, it was because Martin decided that Ned should die because it made the story better. If the showrunners are going to kill off some fan favorite character next episode, what is the point of that? Why was that character a PoV character in the book/show? This is the difference between history and fiction. In fiction you tell the story you want to tell. If the story you want to tell is about a Chosen One kid who finds the magic Macguffin and confronts the Big Bad and but gets himself killed instead of winning, that’s a fine story. But that’s not because the Chosen One kid didn’t have plot armor, it’s because you chose to subvert the Chosen One trope. But what would really subvert the trope is to simply not invoke it in the first place. If you hate Chosen Ones then tell the story about a group of nobodies who made a difference not because they were destined to win, but just because they did. Make the story about how individual people live and die but movements live on. But again, plot armor has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/42 "2017-09-11T21:34:05Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > There’s also the fact it wouldn’t have ended the same way, Indy blows up the flying wing which would have taken it to Berlin necessitating them to take it to the island instead. What instead probably would have happened was they’d take it to Berlin, do a test run and end with the same scene we got with the movie. However the fact it’s under direct German control means the people in charge are going to find a bunch of dead bodies next to a sealed Ark and immediately put two and two together. After extensive testing with concentration camp inmates, they’d realize they now have a spiffy new wunderweapon to unleash. My best guess to how they would utilize it is they’d happily “donate” the ark to another country and host a giant gala for it to attract high level politicians and military brass to see the new unveiling. Long ago, I mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6218081&posted=1#post6218081) (but very few people agreed with me) that I thought the sight of the Ark being wheeled into an American government warehouse at the end of _Raiders_ implied that our having the Ark was what allowed the Allies to defeat the Axis in WWII. Marcus explains to [del]Porkins[/del] Major Eaton that [an army which carries the Ark before it is invincible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUkwCvXHEo&t=4m20s); thus you don’t have to _open_ it. What if it’s not even necessary to parade it around? Perhaps mere _possession_ is enough to ensure that God is on your side. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/43 "2017-09-11T22:51:01Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > Long ago, I mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6218081&posted=1#post6218081) (but very few people agreed with me) that I thought the sight of the Ark being wheeled into an American government warehouse at the end of _Raiders_ implied that our having the Ark was what allowed the Allies to defeat the Axis in WWII. > > Marcus explains to [del]Porkins[/del] Major Eaton that [an army which carries the Ark before it is invincible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfUkwCvXHEo&t=4m20s); thus you don’t have to _open_ it. What if it’s not even necessary to parade it around? Perhaps mere _possession_ is enough to ensure that God is on your side. I hate to interject reality into the scenario but if that’s the case, how do you explain the outcome of the Vietnam War? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/44 "2017-09-12T00:46:47Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I hate to interject reality into the scenario but if that’s the case, how do you explain the outcome of the Vietnam War? Presumably after the events of Crystal Skull (where the attack on the warehouse caused the US Government to inventory everything and find the Ark again) it was given to the newly found state of Israel on its ten year anniversary. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/45 "2017-09-12T03:32:33Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Presumably after the events of Crystal Skull (where the attack on the warehouse caused the US Government to inventory everything and find the Ark again) it was given to the newly found state of Israel on its ten year anniversary. Well, they would have more of a valid claim for it than the US. Oddly enough, that’s something I speculated about about since **Raiders**. Not to further drag down this thread by bringing up Middle Eastern politics but has Israel truly lost any military conflicts since the 50s? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/46 "2017-09-12T04:50:36Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I think that’s typical of The Big Bang Theory to mess up their own joke premise, the idea was to find a major story problem in Raiders of the Lost Ark and they didn’t go with the glaringly obvious “Why is there an armed German Army in Egypt in 1936? Egypt was occupied by the British and obviously would have not tolerated the Germans there at all, especially since this was when Germany was still pretending they didn’t have a rearmed military running around”. > > There’s also the fact it wouldn’t have ended the same way, Indy blows up the flying wing which would have taken it to Berlin necessitating them to take it to the island instead. What instead probably would have happened was they’d take it to Berlin, do a test run and end with the same scene we got with the movie. However the fact it’s under direct German control means the people in charge are going to find a bunch of dead bodies next to a sealed Ark and immediately put two and two together. After extensive testing with concentration camp inmates, they’d realize they now have a spiffy new wunderweapon to unleash. My best guess to how they would utilize it is they’d happily “donate” the ark to another country and host a giant gala for it to attract high level politicians and military brass to see the new unveiling. On June 21st 1941 the entire Soviet high command including Stalin are given a peace offering by Nazi Germany to show their commitment to continued good relations and it is to be shown off at a military parade shown off that very day. As a truck carrying the Ark passes by Stalin’s review stand the lid is “accidentally” kicked off by a sacrificial attendant. With Stalin and most of the Soviet command and control now gone, the Germans unleash their blitzkrieg the very next day… Even with the Ark on the island, it would still likely play out something like that. The island was a Nazi military facility. Even if nobody on the island radioed Berlin to say, “Hey, we got the Ark!” before they popped the lid on it, eventually high command is going to realize that one of their military outposts has gone dark and they’ll send someone to find out why, and voila, Nazis have the Ark and can do all the nasty things you suggest. The one fly in that ointment is that the Ark is not a dumb machine that will always return the same outputs given the same inputs. Rather, it’s the manifestation of the will of God, and God can actively manipulate the “rules” around how the Ark operates to ensure that the Nazis are never able to weaponize it. Also, one of the great subversions in _Raiders_ is that the US government gets its hands on a weapon of incomprehensible power from a decidedly non-human source, on the eve of a massive war, and very sensibly thinks, “This shit is _way_ too dangerous to mess around with. Let’s pack it in a warehouse and forget it exists,” while the protagonist is all, “Fuck yeah! Crack that sucker open and find out how it works!” I really love that about this film. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/47 "2017-09-12T06:07:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Even with the Ark on the island, it would still likely play out something like that. The island was a Nazi military facility. Even if nobody on the island radioed Berlin to say, “Hey, we got the Ark!” before they popped the lid on it, eventually high command is going to realize that one of their military outposts has gone dark and they’ll send someone to find out why, and voila, Nazis have the Ark and can do all the nasty things you suggest. > > The one fly in that ointment is that the Ark is not a dumb machine that will always return the same outputs given the same inputs. Rather, it’s the manifestation of the will of God, and God can actively manipulate the “rules” around how the Ark operates to ensure that the Nazis are never able to weaponize it. Completely true which is why its hard to speculate what would have happened if it did get to Berlin(but then again I’m coming from a more petty perspective of proving an argument wrong about Indy’s irrelevance to the plot. Then again this also opens up the can of worms if it really was God’s will or if it was some crazy alien or occultist thing that resembles God but isn’t quite God and thus isn’t as pure as we think it is. There’s also the fact maybe it’s a version of God who hates the direction humanity has taken, which is why he allows the Nazis to take it in the first place. See, these are the arguments Big Bang Theory should have discussed! ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/48 "2017-09-12T13:12:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Where the concept makes sense is in serialized fiction, especially when it isn’t produced by a single author’s vision. Why does the Joker always escape from Arkham Asylum? Because Batman has to fight the Joker and then Batman has to defeat the Joker. If Batman fought the Joker and put him in prison permanently or killed him then the stories of Batman fighting the Joker are over. And so the Joker has to escape, or turn out to have miraculously escaped the explosion. That’s plot armor. You can’t really defeat the Joker, because there’s always another issue next month and Batman has to fight somebody. There’s a fan theory that I like that says that the Joker is aware that he’s in a comic book and acts accordingly. So he doesn’t care about killing most people because he knows they’re not real, he keeps coming up with wild schemes because that will keep readers interested and him ‘alive’ in more issues, he doesn’t worry about getting caught because he knows they’ll bring him back after, and he avoids actually killing Batman because that would end the comic and his existence. I usually don’t like ‘this explains everything’ theories, but this one works for me. > [@](#): > > For something like Game of Thrones, we have several PoV characters. Yeah, Ned Stark got himself killed. But that wasn’t because the author didn’t believe in plot armor, it was because Martin decided that Ned should die because it made the story better. If the showrunners are going to kill off some fan favorite character next episode, what is the point of that? Why was that character a PoV character in the book/show? Also, the ‘no plot armor’ thing doesn’t seem to be a real rule of the series, it’s more of a gimmick that was really just ‘people who aren’t actually major characters don’t have plot armor’. In the early book, what seemed to be major characters dropped left and right, but now Jaime charges a dragon in the middle of a field where his army is falling to pieces, gets knocked off of his horse into what looked like a shallow river but is actually incredibly deep, and swims to safety (in armor and missing a hand) at the start of the next episode. John Snow leads an adventuring party on a raid, gets surrounded and attacked by the Night King and his army, decides to play Rambo instead of escaping when the dragons turn up for a miraculous escape, and still gets out alive in the end. They sure seem to have acquired some significant plot armor at some point along the journey. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/49 "2017-09-12T16:20:09Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > They sure seem to have acquired some significant plot armor at some point along the journey. Actually, it’s true that the longer a character has been around the more plot armor he or she acquires. In the early seasons, if a major character was offed there was plenty of time for a new or formerly minor character to step into the breach and take on his role. Now that we’re in the final season, there’s no time to introduce new major characters or for a minor one to step up. After following a character for seven years, the audience will feel cheated if they are killed off in some random way, and they will feel tricked if a new major character is introduced out of nowhere. Major characters can be killed, but there has to be a big dramatic payoff. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/50 "2017-09-12T21:17:31Z")
Also, one of the great subversions in _Raiders_ is that the US government gets its hands on a weapon of incomprehensible power from a decidedly non-human source, on the eve of a massive war, and very sensibly thinks, “This shit is _way_ too dangerous to mess around with. Let’s pack it in a warehouse and forget it exists,” while the protagonist is all, “Fuck yeah! Crack that sucker open and find out how it works!” I really love that about this film. [/QUOTE] Hmmm… I always thought the movie’s intent is that the US government was too bureaucratic (and therefore stupid) to realize the Ark was a weapon or anything other than an archeological relic to be filed away. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/51 "2017-09-13T01:25:30Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Hmmm… I always thought the movie’s intent is that the US government was too bureaucratic (and therefore stupid) to realize the Ark was a weapon or anything other than an archeological relic to be filed away. That was my interpretation as well. The government didn’t lock the Ark away because they thought it was too dangerous. They just didn’t realize what they had (or someone who was lower in the chain of command didn’t understand its importance) and it was simply misfiled through incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/52 "2017-09-13T01:39:51Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > On June 21st 1941 the entire Soviet high command including Stalin are given a peace offering by Nazi Germany to show their commitment to continued good relations and it is to be shown off at a military parade shown off that very day. As a truck carrying the Ark passes by Stalin’s review stand the lid is “accidentally” kicked off by a sacrificial attendant. With Stalin and most of the Soviet command and control now gone, the Germans unleash their blitzkrieg the very next day… > [@Miller](#): > > The one fly in that ointment is that the Ark is not a dumb machine that will always return the same outputs given the same inputs. Rather, it’s the manifestation of the will of God, and God can actively manipulate the “rules” around how the Ark operates to ensure that the Nazis are never able to weaponize it. I saw the movie when it was first in the theaters, and I remember wondering why Indy and Marion had to close their eyes, because, weren’t the Nazis melting because they were Nazis trying to harness the power of the Jewish G-d for evil, particularly directed against that particular G-d’s people? I mean, they were melting from sheer irony. So, I accepted that maybe it’s like an eclipse, somehow. But I also figured it wouldn’t have happened if a group of the good guys had opened it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/53 "2017-09-13T02:32:08Z")
I always thought the US government was deliberately hiding the Ark away in the most obscure way possible, at the orders of The Powers That Be. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/54 "2017-09-13T03:14:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The one fly in that ointment is that the Ark is not a dumb machine that will always return the same outputs given the same inputs. Rather, it’s the manifestation of the will of God, and God can actively manipulate the “rules” around how the Ark operates to ensure that the Nazis are never able to weaponize it. Yes, because God would never sanction genocide. More to the point, I once knew a kid in the Bible Belt who believed that God blinded a girl who looked at Him, simply because she looked at Him. Some people are simply pagan, I suppose, worshiping power and not getting the idea that power should be held to account. Because we all know what Christians think of holding God to account for His actions. Anyway, without plot armor, _The Longest Day_ would have been a lot shorter: Oh, invade a beach-head? Have fun getting blasted by tanks, morons. Similarly, _To Hell and Back_ wouldn’t have had the return trip. Plot holes. So many plot holes in some things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/55 "2017-09-13T03:18:57Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I saw the movie when it was first in the theaters, and I remember wondering why Indy and Marion had to close their eyes, because, weren’t the Nazis melting because they were Nazis trying to harness the power of the Jewish G-d for evil, particularly directed against that particular G-d’s people? I mean, they were melting from sheer irony. But God struck down some of the men of Beth Shemesh, putting seventy of them to death because they had looked into the ark of the Lord. The people mourned because of the heavy blow the Lord had dealt them. - 1 Samuel 6:19 Apparently, that’s just what happens when you look in the Ark. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/56 "2017-09-13T03:30:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I always thought the US government was deliberately hiding the Ark away in the most obscure way possible, at the orders of The Powers That Be. That was my take on it initially, as well. Now that I’m older/wiser (or just more cynical), I can also see the Bureaucratic Stupidity angle. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/57 "2017-09-13T03:37:00Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Yes, because God would never sanction genocide. Well, he favors some genocides more than others. I don’t think it’s a stretch to theorize that the God of the Old Testament was not a fan of the Nazis. AIUI, the covenant in “Ark of the Covenant” was specifically that God would not allow the Jewish race to vanish from the Earth so long as they kept faith in him. I don’t think he’d be down with the Germans trying to break his word on that. > [@](#): > > More to the point, I once knew a kid in the Bible Belt who believed that God blinded a girl who looked at Him, simply because she looked at Him. Some people are simply pagan, I suppose, worshiping power and not getting the idea that power should be held to account. Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” And the LORD said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.” - Exodus 33 19:23 Sounds like she got off easy. Still, that’s a good thought experiment: Is God powerful enough to give himself a face that won’t kill anyone who looks at him? Apparently, not. > [@](#): > > Because we all know what Christians think of holding God to account for His actions. Why are we talking about Christians now? > [@](#): > > Anyway, without plot armor, _The Longest Day_ would have been a lot shorter: Oh, invade a beach-head? Have fun getting blasted by tanks, morons. Similarly, _To Hell and Back_ wouldn’t have had the return trip. > > Plot holes. So many plot holes in some things. John Wayne was pushing 60 and playing a paratrooper. You’re going to need some serious plot armor to drop a sextagenarian out an airplane and not kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/58 "2017-09-13T04:02:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, he favors some genocides more than others. I don’t think it’s a stretch to theorize that the God of the Old Testament was not a fan of the Nazis. AIUI, the covenant in “Ark of the Covenant” was specifically that God would not allow the Jewish race to vanish from the Earth so long as they kept faith in him. I don’t think he’d be down with the Germans trying to break his word on that. Bend, perhaps, but not break. > [@](#): > > Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” And the LORD said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.” - Exodus 33 19:23 > > Sounds like she got off easy. Still, that’s a good thought experiment: Is God powerful enough to give himself a face that won’t kill anyone who looks at him? > > Apparently, not. Maybe God’s getting cranky in His old age. He didn’t even scald Moses. > [@](#): > > Why are we talking about Christians now? Because I started talking about my friend the Southern Baptist. > [@](#): > > John Wayne was pushing 60 and playing a paratrooper. You’re going to need some serious plot armor to drop a sextagenarian out an airplane and not kill him. And that Audie Murphy twig, I can just see him on a tank. One stiff breeze and he’s a memory… ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/59 "2017-09-13T06:22:57Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Anyway, without plot armor, _The Longest Day_ would have been a lot shorter: Oh, invade a beach-head? Have fun getting blasted by tanks, morons. Similarly, _To Hell and Back_ wouldn’t have had the return trip. > > Plot holes. So many plot holes in some things. If I’m going to be pedantic, had Rommel used all his Panzer Reserves as he originally envisioned D-Day would have been an even bigger slaughter but mainly for the Germans. All those naval ships and all that Allied air supremacy meant the moment the Panzers got within range of the beach they would have immediately been annihilated even in night attacks. There would be more casualties on the American side to be sure but not enough to make such attacks even worthwhile for the Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978/60 "2017-09-13T06:50:34Z")
I’ve always been curious what Bond movie could he have gotten out of without plot armor (mainly characters not shooting him when they should have, I’ll give him some luck based powers in terms of avoiding gun shots from random guards and in terms of things completely out of his hands like gambling) Dr No - The moment Dr No realizes Bond won’t switch sides when he invites him over to dinner, he should have immediately been shot and killed as opposed to thrown into a holding cell. From Russia With Love - Rosa Klebb should have just shot Bond at the end when she had him at her mercy (though considering this is at the very end of the movie he did pretty well for himself) Goldfinger - Goldfinger never would have made his pitch to the mafia regarding Grand Slam since the only reason in the plot is for Bond to learn of it, thus Bond would be completely in the dark about the nerve gas part of the plan Thunderball - Bond should have been shot at the health clinic, they already were trying to kill him and one guy had a clear shot but didn’t for some reason. You Only Live Twice - Helga Brandt should have shot him mid-way through the movie as opposed to leaving him in an escapable death trap On Her Majesty’s Secret Service - Blofeld leaves him in a holding cell that has an open window instead of just leaving him in a completely locked closet, thus allowing him to escape and meet-up with Tracey. Diamonds Are Forever - Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd literally leave him in a sewer pipe instead of just killing him outright. Live and Let Die - Left to die via gator with nobody around, thus allowing him to get away The Man with the Golden Gun - Scaramanga has multiple open opportunities to kill Bond but doesn’t . However I’ll give Bond this one because Scaramanga is an ego-maniac and thus would only settle for a “fair” fight which Bond does outwit him at the end. The Spy Who Loved Me - Jaws should have just straight up killed Bond at the Egyptian ruins instead of mess around with him Moonraker - That guy who threw a knife at him really should have just used a gun or hit Bond first instead of his driver. For Your Eyes Only - Bond is bleeding and underwear near multiple sharks, and yet the sharks never attack him and instead attack the henchmen pursuing him Octopussy - I forgot if Khan had a legit reason for keeping him around, but Bond’s assassins bring knives not guns to try to kill him on Octopussy’s island and ignoring that Bond wastes more time disarming the nuke then he realistically should have. A View To A Kill - Breathing underwater using a cars tire is impossible to do in real life so he’d be dead there I forgot the plots to the ones after that so feel free to jump in [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/movies-without-the-plot-armor/795978.md?page=4)