# Moving around in United Kingdom **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258 "2013-05-24T19:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/1 "2013-05-24T19:53:03Z")
A question that was raised by something mentioned in another thread. If you’re a citizen of the UK and you live in England, are there any restrictions or procedures on you deciding to relocate to Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland? Suppose you decide to relocate to the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands? Or an overseas territory like Bermuda or the Cayman Islands or Gibraltar? Are there any reverse restrictions if you live in one of these places and want to relocate to England? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/2 "2013-05-24T20:15:56Z")
Interesting question. I know a little about the _US_’s policies and afaik travel and migration between the States, Washington, DC, and “Incorporated” territories is an implicit guarantee of the Constitution. Ohio can’t just up and set up checkpoints and turn people around due to lack of funds, suspicion of subversive behavior, decade-old brushes with the law, or simply a desire to keep carpetbaggers from taking jobs from hardworking locals. The major inhabited offshore territories (Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, and American Samoa) have been deemed to be “unincorporated” territories, which means that they belong to the US but aren’t really and truly-o part of it and aren’t fully subject to the Constitution. Congress and territorial governments have passed various laws to define what the rules are. Puerto Rico has been incorporated into the US customs and immigration zone. You don’t need permission to cross over if you are legally in the zone, and there isn’t any concept of being authorized to be in one and not in the other. You get full residency and employment rights, and voting rights after sufficient residency too if you are a US Citizen. People born in PR have jus soli US citizenship. American Samoa doesn’t have jus soli US citizenship and afaik if you aren’t from there but are legally in the US you can be denied permission to go or settle in AS. I’m not sure about the other places. Alaska and Hawaii, even though they are disconnected from the rest of the country, are full States and subject to the regular rules. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/3 "2013-05-24T21:27:49Z")
If you are a UK citizen from England you can relocate to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland as you wish. Of course, folks from those countries can also move to England. You can’t move to the IoM, Channel Islands or overseas territories quite so easily - I imagine each such place has its own rules. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/4 "2013-05-24T21:27:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you’re a citizen of the UK and you live in England, are there any restrictions or procedures on you deciding to relocate to Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland? For these at least the answer is none whatsoever. It’s all the same country, the UK. The other territories I’m not so sure about. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/5 "2013-05-24T21:33:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you’re a citizen of the UK and you live in England, are there any restrictions or procedures on you deciding to relocate to Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland? No, if you are a citizen of the UK you can actually move anywhere within the whole of the EEA (European Economic Area: EU + Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein), except the European “overseas territories”, which may have limits on immigration. > [@](#): > > Suppose you decide to relocate to the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands? Or an overseas territory like Bermuda or the Cayman Islands or Gibraltar? The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are “Crown dependencies”, and are not part of the UK. The rest are “overseas territories”. All of them have control over immigration and their rules vary. > [@](#): > > Are there any reverse restrictions if you live in one of these places and want to relocate to England? The “overseas territories” are parts of the UK, and since 2002 they are full UK citizens and can move anywhere in the EEA (except other “overseas territories”). You can move freely to the UK from Man and the Channel Islands, but: [QUOTE=Wikipedia: Crown dependencies] Of the Four Freedoms of the EU, the islands take part in that concerning the movement of goods, but not those concerning the movement of people, services or capital. The Channel Islands are outside the VAT area (as they have no VAT), while the Isle of Man is inside it. Both areas are inside the customs union. Channel Islanders and Manx people are British citizens and hence European citizens. However, they are not entitled to take advantage of the freedom of movement of people or services unless they are directly connected (through birth, descent from a parent or grandparent, or five years’ residence) with the United Kingdom. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/6 "2013-05-24T21:35:50Z")
[Here](http://www.gov.im/isleofman/Residency.xml#Work)’s a bit covering the Isle Of Man. > [@](#): > > Whilst there are no special restrictions on access to the Island (other than those under the Immigration Act which apply equally in the United Kingdom) the ability of newcomers to take up work is governed by the Control of Employment Acts which require anyone who is not an ‘Isle of Man worker’ to have a work permit before starting employment or self-employment in the Island. (There is a certain limited number of occupations for which permits are not required, e.g. doctors, dentists, ministers of religion or the police). > > Qualification as an ‘Isle of Man worker’ includes being born on the Island, resident for at least five years, married to an ‘Isle of Man worker’, having received full-time education during residence (and having remained on the Island thereafter) or having a Manx-born parent who has spent the first five years of their life on the Island. Full details are given in the Department of Economic Development web site. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/7 "2013-05-24T21:39:17Z")
How about Australia? Can a Brit travel there without a visa? Aussie travel to Britain? Work/relocate? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/8 "2013-05-24T21:40:55Z")
By the way, Little Nemo, are you referring to the Green Card thread? If I wasn’t clear, I didn’t mean to imply there’d be any restriction on moving from England to Northern Ireland, just that I suspect that in and of itself wouldn’t be enough to qualify entry into the visa lotto as being from Northern Ireland. I have no idea how it is qualified though. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/9 "2013-05-24T21:49:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > How about Australia? Can a Brit travel there without a visa? Aussie travel to Britain? Work/relocate? UK visitors to Australia get eVisitor visa direct for AU$20. Australian visitors to the UK staying fewer than 6 months don’t require a passport. In order to work/relocate to either country a visa is required. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/10 "2013-05-24T21:50:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > How about Australia? Can a Brit travel there without a visa? Aussie travel to Britain? Work/relocate? Nope, though the answer may vary if you are an Australian with a UK citizen for a parent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/11 "2013-05-24T21:52:22Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > By the way, Little Nemo, are you referring to the Green Card thread? > > If I wasn’t clear, I didn’t mean to imply there’d be any restriction on moving from England to Northern Ireland, just that I suspect that in and of itself wouldn’t be enough to qualify entry into the visa lotto as being from Northern Ireland. I have no idea how it is qualified though. Yes, that was the thread. For those who didn’t read it, the United States has a policy about issuing immigration visas, which is partly based on your citizenship. And the strange thing is the general policy for citizens of the UK specifically says it doesn’t apply to people from Northern Ireland. Which seems pretty pointless if anybody who lives in the UK can move to Northern Ireland anytime they want without restriction. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/12 "2013-05-24T21:58:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > UK visitors to Australia get eVisitor visa direct for AU$20. Australian visitors to the UK staying fewer than 6 months don’t require a passport. > > In order to work/relocate to either country a visa is required. Did you mean to say “passport” here? I was fairly sure that Aussies needed a passport, although not a visa for short visits. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/13 "2013-05-24T22:03:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, that was the thread. > > For those who didn’t read it, the United States has a policy about issuing immigration visas, which is partly based on your citizenship. And the strange thing is the general policy for citizens of the UK specifically says it doesn’t apply to people from Northern Ireland. Which seems pretty pointless if anybody who lives in the UK can move to Northern Ireland anytime they want without restriction. But Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Immigration isn’t an issue. Edit: Oh, I see, Green Card Lottery. IIRC, you need to show you were born in NI to be considered. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/14 "2013-05-24T22:07:51Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Did you mean to say “passport” here? I was fairly sure that Aussies needed a passport, although not a visa for short visits. :smack: Visa of course. D’oh. I was going to write that Australians I know often hold a British passport. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/15 "2013-05-24T22:13:17Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > But Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Immigration isn’t an issue. > > Edit: Oh, I see, Green Card Lottery. IIRC, you need to show you were born in NI to be considered. Also if your spouse was born in Ireland or your parents. [http://www.usgreencardlottery.org/eligible\_uk.html](http://www.usgreencardlottery.org/eligible_uk.html) ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/16 "2013-05-24T22:20:59Z")
By the way, I forgot that Switzerland also has a treaty with the EU that includes the free movement of people. Also, as far as I can see, the french “overseas departments” are also included, so the full European “free movement of people”-area is: The European parts of the EU, plus Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Martinique, Guadeloupe, French Guyana, Reunion and Mayotte. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/17 "2013-05-24T23:47:24Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > But Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Immigration isn’t an issue. > > Edit: Oh, I see, Green Card Lottery. IIRC, you need to show you were born in NI to be considered. Yes, I’m talking about immigrating to the United States from the United Kingdom not immigrating from one part of the UK to another. Anyone know why UK citizens who live in Northern Ireland aren’t simply counted in with the UK total? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/18 "2013-05-24T23:49:45Z")
And can anyone tell me which of these sentences are grammatically correct and which aren’t? People immigrate to the United States from the United Kingdom. People immigrate from the United Kingdom to the United States. People emigrate to the United States from the United Kingdom. People emigrate from the United Kingdom to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/19 "2013-05-24T23:58:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, I’m talking about immigrating to the United States from the United Kingdom not immigrating from one part of the UK to another. Anyone know why UK citizens who live in Northern Ireland aren’t simply counted in with the UK total? I’m not sure there’s a GQ answer to this as such, except to clarify that UK citizens who _live_ in NI aren’t automatically eligible. As I and **An Gadai** pointed out, they need to have been born in NI or have a connection to Ireland via a spouse or parent. So I could move to Carrickfergus tomorrow, but I still wouldn’t be eligible for the GC lottery. I don’t know “why” as such, except that these are the rules set by US immigration authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258/20 "2013-05-25T01:05:18Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I don’t know “why” as such, except that these are the rules set by US immigration authorities. The rule is that any country which has had more than 50,000 people immigrate to the United States in the past five years is ineligible for diversity visas. The United Kingdom is ineligible under that rule. And it would seem that Northern Ireland, as a part of the United Kingdom, would therefore be ineligible. But for some reason, it’s been declared exempt. It would be like the United States declaring it’s not allowing any Germans to immigrate to the United States - but Berliners are allowed to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-around-in-united-kingdom/659258.md?page=2)