# Moving Isreal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607 "2010-01-12T02:43:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/101 "2010-01-13T22:10:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But that would be implying that the descendants of immigrants are somehow second-class citizens. Nobody here would dare say something like that. Saying stuff you can’t get away with saying outright is what implying is _for_. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/102 "2010-01-13T23:02:53Z")
> [@RNATB](#): > > The reason the Arabs hated Israel originally is that Israel encompasses Jerusalem, which is a holy city for Muslims, too. Wrong. Israel didn’t have Jerusalem until '67. > [@njtt](#): > > Effectively all the territory of Israel was taken from Palestinian Arabs Utter fiction, a complete and total agenda driven fabrication. Very little of the land was privately owned in the first place, and Jews owned a significant percentage of the total land which was bought from its legal owners. > [@njtt](#): > > There were very fews Jews living in the area before 1948 (when the state of Israel was established in Palestine), and they were co-existing reasonably peaceably with the Palestinians before ]then. As pointed out already, both of these claims are absolutely fictional. There was a substantial Jewish population in the area and the Nazi-aligned Grand Mufti had been directing violence against Jews for decades. You’d do well to study the riots, attacks, the Hebron Massacre, etc, etc, etc. > [@njtt](#): > > Maybe they would all like to own it, ideally, but there is no reason to think that Muslims, like Christians, would not be content with free access to it. Except while the Jordanians owned it Jews were prohibited access and Jewish tombstones were demolished and used to pave Arab Legion latrines, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/103 "2010-01-13T23:35:11Z")
The Israelites have the only piece of real estate on earth that was deeded by the Lord God, who is the ultimate authority on everything. In Ezekiel the entire house of Israel has been cut off by death itself (Ez 37:11) and the Lord restores them to life and their land(Ez 37:14) We can’t because God has given them that land, and God is enforcing that. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/104 "2010-01-13T23:47:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Israelites have the only piece of real estate on earth that was deeded by the Lord God, who is the ultimate authority on everything. In Ezekiel the entire house of Israel has been cut off by death itself (Ez 37:11) and the Lord restores them to life and their land(Ez 37:14) > > We can’t because God has given them that land, and God is enforcing that. Intriguing. You’d think God might have done something about that Hitler fellow before the Holocaust really got going. I mean, really. God could have stopped THAT with two well-placed thunderbolts. Hitler’s in his office, preparing discussing ways to murder Jews with Himmler and Goebbels. The instant anybody says “camp” or “oven” or “Arbeit macht frei,” he delivers the Thoresque smackdown on that guy. Once the other two are done mourning their electrocuted comrade, the big G waits for them to get back to their wicked plans, then unleashes a second ZAP! No need for a third zap. ETA: I’ve run the numbers, and it will take exactly 71 zaps to accomplish the same thing in Gaza, if God feels like it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/105 "2010-01-13T23:47:50Z")
This tangent will not end well. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/106 "2010-01-13T23:53:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > This tangent will not end well. Well, it’s true that the guy who responded to **kanicbird** is a notorious jackass, but KB himself is a nice enough fellow and I doubt he will get insulting or rude. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/107 "2010-01-14T00:01:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hitler Godwinized in only 3 pages… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/108 "2010-01-14T00:09:43Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Godwinized in only 3 pages… I wasn’t comparing **kanicbird** to Hitler. I just conceded that he (KB) is a fairly personable and pleasant sort, at least online. My point was that if Yahweh, Zeus, or Tyr were truly involved in the fate of Israel, he could probably show said interest in a more…definitive…fashion than we have seen. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/109 "2010-01-14T00:33:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Israelites have the only piece of real estate on earth that was deeded by the Lord God, who is the ultimate authority on everything. In Ezekiel the entire house of Israel has been cut off by death itself (Ez 37:11) and the Lord restores them to life and their land(Ez 37:14) > > We can’t because God has given them that land, and God is enforcing that. This thread is, technically, about them leaving _voluntarily_. I wonder if you realize that you just argued that God is preventing any Jew from ever leaving Israel, ever - and therefore that any person who thinks they ever saw a Jew outside of Israel, or thinks they themselves are a Jew outside of Israel, must therefore be mistaken. This strikes me as a bit implausible, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/110 "2010-01-14T03:18:04Z")
They’re there, they want to stay, they have guns… …I’m not sure how to continue on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/111 "2010-01-14T03:46:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Wrong. Israel didn’t have Jerusalem until '67. Israel didn’t have all of Jerusalem until 1967. It had a big chunk of it, which was apparently enough to piss off the Arabs. > [@kanicbird](#): > > The Israelites have the only piece of real estate on earth that was deeded by the Lord God, who is the ultimate authority on everything. So, until 1948 they… what? Misplaced the holy deed? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/112 "2010-01-14T23:09:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Israel didn’t have all of Jerusalem until 1967. It had a big chunk of it No. The area with particular significance is the Old City and most of the religious sites. The Jews of the Old City were ethnically cleansed in '48, and the Old City was not retaken until 1967. Your original claim is still falsified, in any case, as the Arabs were rather obviously quite perturbed long before the nation of Israel existed or controlled land near the Old City. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/113 "2010-01-20T01:03:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > some of the early Zionists didn’t think Israel should be where it urrently is, and others didn’t expect they would really be able to get the location. I think some of them pushed for a location in South America. Thank God that didn’t happen. No country in S. America would have accepted that and this region would have become the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607/114 "2010-01-20T01:11:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why would they want to move? Because some people they don’t like don’t like them back? (I’m speaking from their perspective here.) Touche’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moving-isreal/524607.md?page=5)