I’m unconvinced that Hamas should be a trusted reporter of the facts of these events or any others.
So you’re convinced by the IDF and Hamas accounts, and you don’t think an investigation is warranted. I do, and your certainty doesn’t move me.
A better fence would help.
I wonder how many of those killed had arms. I would really like to see more video.
Not going to happen.
How does the math on that work? If a thousand people are throwing rocks at a hundred people with guns, does that mean ten of the people with guns can shoot? Is each person with a gun allowed to shoot a hundred rock throwers? If somebody throws a rock at a guy with a gun and the guy with the gun shoots back, is the first guy allowed to throw ninety-nine more rocks in order to catch up?
As I mentioned above, it doesn’t work.
Israel says they shot 62 people, and most of them were terrorists. Hamas says Israel shot 62 people, and most of them were terrorists.
You don’t believe what Hamas says; you don’t believe what the IDF says. Why would you believe anyone else?
Regards,
Shodan
Why would I be skeptical of two interested parties who both have reasons of their own to tell one story or the other? Maybe I’m just a natural skeptic.
But aren’t they both telling the same story?
Even if that’s 100% true, that doesn’t mean that the IDF did everything perfect, and an investigation isn’t warranted. Thousands of people were injured. An investigation doesn’t hurt anyone. I think it’s reasonable to be skeptical when powerful and wealthy countries kill lots of desperate people and injure thousands, and then state that everything they did was warranted.
That sounds suspiciously like sixty two Palestinians were killed, most of them terrorists.
It may be the first thing Hamas has said that I believe.
iiandyiiii needs an investigation to find out something that everyone already knows. And to see if Israel did everything perfect. A hint: Israel isn’t perfect, and we already know that. Hamas is a murderous bunch of terrorists, who are willing to sacrifice the lives of Palestinian civilians so they can attack Israel. And we already know that too.
Regards,
Shodan
Do we know the exact sequence of events – what orders were given and when, how/when/if they were obeyed, which soldiers fired, who they fired upon, etc.? Is it impossible that the international community, as well as Israelis and Palestinians, could learn something from an investigation?
From my time in the military, nearly every incident in which people were hurt or killed was investigated, because there are almost always lessons to be learned from digging and asking questions. I’m struggling to see why this is such a terrible idea here. Why is this so unreasonable?
If this is just a snarkgasm, carry on. But maybe it’s reasonable and rational to want to know more about an incident in which dozens were killed and thousands injured.
I would think that the Israelis would release any video they had of Hamas terrorists carrying firearms during the action.
You think the IDF isn’t investigating? Believe me, based on my own experiences, the Israeli military is alt least as investigation-crazy as the U.S.; at times you get the feeling that a soldier can’t cut himself shaving without the IDF treating it as a teaching opportunity. I’m certain that every single shot fired last week was debriefed and analyzed.
As for sharing the findings with the public, or allowing foreign investigations, how often does the U.S. military allow that? How many international investigations have there been of the tens of thousands of people they’ve killed over the past 20 years? Ten? Five? Fewer?
I’m sure the IDF is investigating, but in order for an investigation to have even the slightest chance at any credibility beyond hard-core supporters, it would need to be conducted by a third party.
And you’re absolutely right about the US military. We should definitely share the findings of our investigations far, far more often, including allowing third party involvement. I should have mentioned that.
Forgot to add (once again) that the fact that the Israeli Defense Minister said that there are no innocent people in Gaza (everyone so far has ignored that fact) adds an increased need for third party involvement when the IDF kills and injures lots and lots of Gazans.
I don’t have a clue, but I recall the drowning deaths of some marines at boot camp being heavily investigated. The collision of a USN destroyer with a cargo ship recently. The explosion of an ICBM that threw a nuclear warhead out of the silo here in Arkansas as well. (We have fewer Senators, so ICBMs were put here instead of New England or California.)
There have been plenty of public investigations here in Israel, but like your examples, they were all cases involving accidents or obvious screwups. As a rule, armies only allow public inquiries when there’s an public outcry; otherwise, they like to keep things in-house. So far, there has been no domestic demand for any sort of inquiry of last week’s events like there was for, say, the October 2000 events. If the public, press or parliament don’t demand an investigation, there won’t be an investigation.
Yeah, but that’s just Lieberman - the man’s a thug and a blowhard, who can’t speak two sentences without pandering to his right-wing base. I don’t like what he’s saying, either, but it’s not as if he has much on an impact on the IDF’s doctrine, rules of engagement and code of ethics.
When such a man is made the Defense Minister, at least ostensibly in charge of the military, the possibility that his attitude might rub off, at least a little bit, on the policies and practices of the IDF, sounds like a reasonable concern.
i.e. if David Duke were to become Chief of Police of Kenner, Louisiana, and then the Kenner police killed several black people, it would be reasonable to want a third party investigation, and be reasonable to suspect that the Kenner police might be acting at least somewhat in a way that David Duke wants them to.