# Mowaffak Al-Rubaie says "NO, N, O," to permanent US bases in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318 "2007-10-19T18:06:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/21 "2007-10-19T23:07:49Z")
Anyway, on to the OP: First off, for anyone who doesn’t know who the hell Mowaffak Al-Rubaie actually is, here is a brief [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouwaffak_al-Rubaie) article on him: > [@](#): > > Dr Mowaffak Baqer al-Rubaie (alternative transliterations Muwaffaq al-Rubaie and Muwaffaq al-Rubay’i) (Arabic: موفق الربيعي ) is an Iraqi politician, and the current Iraqi National Security Advisor in the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. He was elected to the Iraqi Council of Representatives in December 2005 as a nominee of the United Iraqi Alliance. > > A Shia Muslim and neurologist by training, al-Rabai’i was born in Kadhimiya and left Iraq in the early 1980s to study in Britain. There he became a member of the British Royal College of Physicians who practiced internal medicine and neurology and also went into publishing. In London he became a spokesman for the Islamic Dawa Party. > > After the United States’s 2003 invasion of Iraq he was appointed a member of the Iraqi Governing Council. In April 2004 he was appointed National Security Advisor by the Coalition Provisional Authority.[1] He held this post until September 2004, when he was replaced by Qassim Daoud following a disagreement with then Prime Minister Iyad Allawi over how to deal with Muqtada al-Sadr.[2] > > In 2006, al-Rubaie was appointed National Security Advisor by the government of Nouri al-Maliki.[3] > [@](#): > > Reputation > > Rubaie is closely connected to the widely discredited opposition leader Ahmed Chalabi, both of whom are relatively secular but joined the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA). He is also close to Chalabi’s nephew Ali Allawi, another secular UIA man, who gives Rubaie high praise in his book The Occupation of Iraq: Winning the War, Losing the Peace (2007). > > However, Rubaie has made many enemies in Iraq since he returned in 2003. He is accused of making outrageous claims related to his access, both with American politicians and with Iraqi figures, particularly Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. Rubaie claimed to be speaking on Sistani’s behalf on several occasions, although many within Iraqi politics disputed this assertion. Perhaps most notably, he reported in February 2004 that Sistani had survived an assassination attempt, although this was denied publicly bu Sistani and his aides. Many accused Rubaie of inventing the event in order to bring attention to himself. Whether this is true or not, the rumour is an indication of the views of Rubaie’s detractors.[4] > > On the other hand, those who support Rubaie would counter that he has played an important role in various negotiations, especially those between the Iraqi government and Moqtada al-Sadr during the siege of Najaf in 2004[5]. Maybe someone who is really knowledgeable about the in’s and out’s of the labyrinthine mazes of Iraqi politics will wander into the thread, but I’m unsure how much Mowaffak actually speaks for the ‘people of Iraq, the parliament and the Council of Representatives and the government of Iraq’, blah blah blah. I’m guessing…not that much over all. However, the question from the OP is “I’d like to hear other’s opinions, but I don’t believe there’s a chance in Hell Cheney won’t get his bases, no matter what the Iraqis want or say.” I would say that ‘Chaney’ will most likely get his bases, yes. I don’t know how opposed the Iraqi government actually is to this idea, since I don’t know that there IS a unified ‘Iraqi government’ to actually have a solid opinion one way or the other. The Iraqi government, such as it is, seems to waffle back and forth between factions that want the US to stay (for a time), those who want us to leave (sometime vaguely in the future) and some who want us out right now. I’m also unsure whether this statement by Mowaffak is for local public consumption or a real statement of intent. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/22 "2007-10-19T23:18:43Z")
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html) **Most Iraqis Favor Immediate U.S. Pullout, Polls Show** (You really don’t already know this? Honest engine?) > [@](#): > > A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers… > > Another new poll, scheduled to be released on Wednesday by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, found that 71 percent of Iraqis questioned want the Iraqi government to ask foreign forces to depart within a year. By large margins, though, Iraqis believed that the U.S. government would refuse the request, with 77 percent of those polled saying the United States intends keep permanent military bases in the country… And doesn’t “Mowaffak” sound like something you’d yell if you hit your thumb with a hammer? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/23 "2007-10-19T23:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] … In fact, when we come right down to it, how do any of us really know that Iraq even exists? [/QUOTE] Is the cat dead? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/24 "2007-10-19T23:28:03Z")
**Terrifel:** Your modest decorum presents an excellent example that I will not hesitate to recommend to others. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/25 "2007-10-19T23:52:37Z")
Now that we have discerned the legitimacy of the story and corresponding video linked to in my original post, do you think there will be any ramifications, or fallout, or any impact at all because of Al-Rubaie’s statements? I am very concerned about our long-term presence in the ME in general, and Iraq specifically. Permanent bases would mean not only are we not leaving any time soon, we’re not leaving period, and any autonomy and soveregnty Iraq has will be defined and dictated by the US and its interests. I don’t believe Al-Rubaie’s statements will do much of anything to stop the continued rape of the Iraqi people and the plunder of Iraq’s natural resources, but I’m glad he was willing to give his honest, untempered opinion, and I’m hopeful he’s actually speaking for the entire government/parliament. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/26 "2007-10-20T00:05:23Z")
I suspect you need look no further than the US Embassy which may very well be completed in Baghdad, at an estimated cost of 3.76 godzillabucks. Were we concerned for the tender sensibilities of our subjects, we might have opted for a more modest and circumspect presence. Or we might have been alerted by the continuing antipathy of the Iraqi people in general, who, as cited above, remain suspicious of our motives and our intentions. Of course, we did nothing of the sort. The embassy is a solid gold steam locomotive, powered by burning Benjamins, chugging away with a full head of steam, waiting only for tracks to be lain. Two bits says that when we finally say “Fuck this shit!” and walk away, the site will become the Iranian Embassy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/27 "2007-10-20T00:09:05Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Two bits says that when we finally say “Fuck this shit!” and walk away, the site will become the Iranian Embassy. [/QUOTE] Or burned to the ground by cheering mobs. Or turned into a memorial/museum for American aggression and tyranny in Iraq; that would be rather fitting actually. And they’d have no shortage of exhibits. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/28 "2007-10-20T02:24:05Z")
I for one think its cute that this Iraqi actually believes that they have any say in deciding whether or not we have permanent bases in Iraq. Ah, the idealism of youth. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/29 "2007-10-20T02:47:28Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Or burned to the ground by cheering mobs. Or turned into a memorial/museum for American aggression and tyranny in Iraq; that would be rather fitting actually. And they’d have no shortage of exhibits. [/QUOTE] I assure you, they will be far to busy killing each other to make an exhibit to ANYTHING. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/30 "2007-10-20T03:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] I assure you, they will be far to busy killing each other to make an exhibit to ANYTHING. [/QUOTE] Eventually they’ll probably come to some sort of peace. They never will while we are there; nor should they. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/31 "2007-10-20T03:10:20Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I mean…such strong but poetic language. I was especially moved by the ‘big fat no’ part…I mean, THAT is true diplomacy and a speech that will ring out there through history with Churchill’s famous lines :dubious: I’ll be a little more impressed with your critique of al-Rubaie’s English when I hear you deliver a “strong but poetic” speech in Arabic. Churchill, of course, had the advantage of composing his speeches in his native tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/32 "2007-10-21T03:05:00Z")
[US News and World Report](http://www.usnews.com/blogs/news-desk/2007/10/3/top-iraqi-big-fat-no-on-war-with-iran.html) [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100502377.html?hpid=topnews) [Seattle Times](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003929208_iraqiran06.html) All report the same quote regarding bombing of Iran. The quote was attributed to the Security Minister addressing a small conference at the Nixon Center. (no doubt a hot bed of loony leftists.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/33 "2007-10-21T04:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] (You really don’t already know this? Honest engine?) [/QUOTE] I assume this is somehow aimed at me. My question (honest engine) is…what has this got to do with what I was saying? Whether or not a majority of Iraqi’s want an immediate US pull out has little to do with whether or not the Iraq GOVERNMENT favors an immediate US pullout. Do you have any indications that the Iraqi government favors this? Or has requested an immediate US pullout? AFAIK, the majority of US citizens seem to favor a fairly quick US pullout…do you think this is going to translate into US troops boarding planes for home soon? Honest engine? [QUOTE=Kimstu] I’ll be a little more impressed with your critique of al-Rubaie’s English when I hear you deliver a “strong but poetic” speech in Arabic. Churchill, of course, had the advantage of composing his speeches in his native tongue. [/QUOTE] You think ‘big fat no’ sounds poetic in Arabic? Perhaps you are right. [QUOTE=Triskadecamus] All report the same quote regarding bombing of Iran. The quote was attributed to the Security Minister addressing a small conference at the Nixon Center. (no doubt a hot bed of loony leftists.) [/QUOTE] I’m unsure what point you think you are making with this. -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/34 "2007-10-21T06:34:02Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I assume this is somehow aimed at me. My question (honest engine) is…what has this got to do with what I was saying? Whether or not a majority of Iraqi’s want an immediate US pull out has little to do with whether or not the Iraq GOVERNMENT favors an immediate US pullout. Do you have any indications that the Iraqi government favors this? Or has requested an immediate US pullout?.. [/quote] Don’t know about “immediate pullout”, not talking about “immediate pullout”. Talking about permanent bases. And the cite clearly shows that the Iraqi people don’t want foreign troops on their soil, from which I leap to the conclusion that they don’t favor bases for those troops either. As for the Iraqi governments position on _permanent bases_, we have a CNN quote above, courtesy of the “loony left”. Now, I don’t know as I’d suggest that Mr. Rubaie is the major player in the Iraqi government, such as it is, but I’m betting he doesn’t take the bus to work. Not even a cab. I’m guessing armored limo, fifteen-twenty security guards. All of which makes the atmosphere for _permanent_ bases untenable. > [@](#): > > …AFAIK, the majority of US citizens seem to favor a fairly quick US pullout…do you think this is going to translate into US troops boarding planes for home soon? Honest engine?.. Not soon enough, no. But eventually, yes, I think it will. Now, it may be that permanent bases will be built, but we won’t be the occupants. > [@](#): > > …You think ‘big fat no’ sounds poetic in Arabic? Perhaps you are right… Like many powerful and important Iraqis, he has quite a good command of English, but probably not so much familiarity with the colloquial. Someone told him that “big fat NO!” means “emphatic” in American. At least he did not insist that his hovercraft was full of eels. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318/35 "2007-10-21T06:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I’m unsure what point you think you are making with this. [/QUOTE] Just a minor irritation at argumentum ad hominem. Please ignore it. The cites were meant to show that the phrase was attributed to the discussion on the 4th by several news sources. Subsequent attributions, by whomever may in fact be simply miss attributions in time. The fact of such error is a valid debate element, the purported bias of an unidentified source is almost, but not quite an admission that no factual refutation is available. Tris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mowaffak-al-rubaie-says-no-n-o-to-permanent-us-bases-in-iraq/423318.md?page=1)