# Mozart Opera in Berlin Cancelled for Fear of Muslims: Complex Story! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353 "2006-09-27T13:37:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/1 "2006-09-27T13:37:59Z")
Not as cut-and-dried as it seems; there are a lot of gray areas, amd twists and turns, in this story: > [@](#): > > BERLIN, Sept. 26 — **A leading German opera house has canceled performances of a Mozart opera because of security fears stirred by a scene that depicts the severed head of the Prophet Muhammad, prompting a storm of protest here about what many see as the surrender of artistic freedom**. The Deutsche Oper Berlin said Tuesday that it had pulled “Idomeneo” from its fall schedule after the police warned of an “incalculable risk” to the performers and the audience. The company’s director, Kirsten Harms, said she regretted the decision but felt she had no choice. She said she was told in August that the police had received an anonymous threat, but she acted only after extensive deliberations. Political and cultural figures throughout Germany condemned the cancellation. Some said it recalled the decision of European newspapers not to reprint satirical cartoons about Muhammad, after their publication in Denmark generated a furor among Muslims. > > **The disputed scene is not part of Mozart’s opera, but was added by the director, Hans Neuenfels**. In it, the king of Crete, Idomeneo, carries the heads of Muhammad, Jesus, Buddha and Poseidon on to the stage, placing each on a stool. The cancellation of the performances fanned a debate in Europe about whether the West is compromising values like free expression to avoid stoking anger in the Muslim world. The sulfurous public reaction prompted some people to speculate that the decision might eventually be reversed. > > **The leader of the Islamic Council, Ali Kizilkaya, told a radio station in Berlin that he welcomed the cancellation, saying a depiction of decapitated Muhammad “could certainly offend Muslims.” “Nevertheless, of course, I think it is horrible that one has to be afraid,” Mr. Kizilkaya said, according to The Associated Press. “That is not the right way to open dialogue.”** At a news conference on Tuesday, Ms. Harms said she broached the possibility of removing the offending scene with Mr. Neuenfels. When he resisted, she let the matter drop. > > The scene devised by Mr. Neuenfels puts a sanguinary ending on an opera that, in the way Mozart wrote it, ends with King Idomeneo giving up his throne to appease the god of the sea, and blessing the romantic union of his son Idamante with the Greek princess Ilia. The severed heads of the religious figures, Mr. Raue said, was meant by Mr. Neuenfels to make a point that “all the founders of religions were figures that didn’t bring peace to the world.” Hmmm. Seems like no one’s really right and no one’s really wrong here. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/2 "2006-09-27T13:39:27Z")
No, I think that whenever genuine artistry (this is _Mozart_ we’re talking about, not some unknown Danish cartoonist) is stifled because of Muslim extremists’ propensity for violence, there’s definitely a right and wrong here. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/3 "2006-09-27T13:40:09Z")
WTF? He’s editing a Mozart opera? _Adding_ to it? Who the fuck does that idiotic conductor think he is… Beethoven? (Sorry, but that’s the controversy **I** see. YMMV. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/4 "2006-09-27T13:51:56Z")
I’m writing a novel and it certainly does not conform to the worldview of any major Abrahamic religion. But the one it conforms to the most is the Islamic metaphysics. Yet I would think that if it were better written and thus became famous (or even published :)), that the ones protesting the loudest would be Muslim. But thankfully I’m not a great writer. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/5 "2006-09-27T14:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] No, I think that whenever genuine artistry (this is _Mozart_ we’re talking about, not some unknown Danish cartoonist) is stifled because of Muslim extremists’ propensity for violence, there’s definitely a right and wrong here. [/QUOTE] As the OP made clear, this is absolutely NOT Mozart we’re talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/6 "2006-09-27T14:27:30Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > As the OP made clear, this is absolutely NOT Mozart we’re talking about here. Well, it is Mozart–but it’s Mozart, plus an extraneous bit of stage business. [QUOTE=JohnT] WTF? He’s editing a Mozart opera? _Adding_ to it? [/QUOTE] It doesn’t even make sense dramatically, because in the opera, it’s the sea monster **sent by** Poseidon that Idamante kills, not Poseidon himself, so why would they bring in Poseidon’s head? Just to make some kind of neo-nihil-existentialist statement about the death-of-something-or-other, I guess. And since that’s what Mozart operas are all about, hey, it’s perfectly appropriate. _"…[to make] a point that “all the founders of religions were figures that didn’t bring peace to the world.”_ Yeah, like **that** belongs in Mozart. :rolleyes: But even granted it’s a silly bit, still, if they cancel the entire performance now, it looks like caving. Why on earth don’t they just cut out the extraneous silly bit and go ahead and put on the opera? That wouldn’t look quite so much like caving (“well, this bit doesn’t belong in here anyway, we don’t mind dropping it”), and they could get extra points for seeming to be sensitive and for being willing to compromise, plus they’d get even more extra points for eliminating a bit of arbitrarily inserted sermonizing stage business from a Mozart opera, always a good thing. There is also another issue here, which is that the opera house in question is supported by the state, in which case I think that the tax-payers do have a right to complain if something that they’re paying for is actively offensive to them. The kind of “Artistic freedom” that means that any artist anywhere has the right to get up on stage (metaphorically speaking) and say whatever they please only obtains when nobody’s paying for it except the people who bought a ticket (so to speak), but if we’re all being expected to chip in to underwrite it, then I think we have a say in the finished product, and if the finished product is actively offensive to us, we have a right to ask for changes. So I think the Islamic taxpayers of Germany have a right to complain about an extraneous silly bit that’s been added to a Mozart opera that they find actively offensive. And I think the management oughta just say, “Whoops, our bad, let’s take it out” and send the plastic heads back to the Props department. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/7 "2006-09-27T14:35:19Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Hmmm. Seems like no one’s really right and no one’s really wrong here. [/QUOTE] Honestly, I’d say that whoever put the added scene in is most certainly “wrong.” It sounds like a ghastly addition, and removing it would both restore the artistic work and shut up any protest. It’s win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/8 "2006-09-27T14:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Honestly, I’d say that whoever put the added scene in is most certainly “wrong.” It sounds like a ghastly addition, and removing it would both restore the artistic work and shut up any protest. It’s win-win. [/QUOTE] Huh? The scene may well be stupid. It certainly sounds stupid. If critics denounce it and audiences stay away, that’s their right. But surely you don’t believe that religious terror is justified if it’s target is, in your opinion, stupid? You don’t, right? It’s like the Danish cartoons. Those cartoons were as funny as a tax form, but the response to them should have troubled everyone. The next art work to be cancelled because it pisses off some violent fanatic may not be stupid at all. It may be a work you would have loved. The most troubling thing about this is that the whole thing was cancelled after one threat. Is Europe really that cowed? That’s sad. They may as well start paying dhimmi tax and adopting to a theocracy, as that’s where they’re heading. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/9 "2006-09-27T14:56:22Z")
**Dead Duck Goose** : “Why on earth don’t they just cut out the extraneous silly bit and go ahead and put on the opera? That wouldn’t look quite so much like caving (“well, this bit doesn’t belong in here anyway, we don’t mind dropping it”), and they could get extra points for seeming to be sensitive and for being willing to compromise, plus they’d get even more extra points for eliminating a bit of arbitrarily inserted sermonizing stage business from a Mozart opera, always a good thing.” > [@](#): > > Neuenfels has insisted his staging not be altered, saying the scene where the king presents the severed heads represents his protest against “any form of organized religion or its founders.” > > “I stand behind my production and will not change it,” Neuenfels told the Berliner Morgenpost in its Tuesday edition. The sermonizer doesn’t want to cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/10 "2006-09-27T14:56:32Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Hmmm. Seems like no one’s really right and no one’s really wrong here. [/QUOTE] Well, forgetting about whether or not it’s wrong to use… creative staging in a Mozart opera… I don’t know. I look at the words of the leader of the Islamic Council, and I just get frustrated. He says it’s horrible that people have to be affraid, but is he speaking out against subversive violence in his religious community? If not, then that’s just lip-service, and what he’s really saying is, “geez, it sucks to be you, to have to be affraid.” It’s just like Christian ministers preaching love from the pulpit, while refusing to call their parishoners out specifically and directly for hateful acts towards gays/blacks/whomever. Sure, people have a right to complain. But as soon as someone makes a threat of physical harm over an issue of expression, the lines of right and wrong are clearly drawn, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/11 "2006-09-27T14:57:36Z")
Oops… [Cite](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/27/berlin.opera.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/12 "2006-09-27T15:01:38Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Huh? The scene may well be stupid. It certainly sounds stupid. If critics denounce it and audiences stay away, that’s their right. But surely you don’t believe that religious terror is justified if it’s target is, in your opinion, stupid? You don’t, right? [/QUOTE] Religious terror is absolutely unjustified under any and all circumstances. The threat is shameful and disgusting and there are no excuses. I believe that fucking with an extant piece of art in order to promote some political position is stupid and indefensible. Pulling the entire performance because of threats would be a shame but understandable if it were the entire performance that garnered the threats. But pulling it because some bozo tacked on a stupid political statement and apparently won’t remove it is just idiocy. Allowing the bozo to tack on the stupid political statement is just idiocy _even if it had garnered no threats_. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/13 "2006-09-27T15:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Religious terror is absolutely unjustified under any and all circumstances. The threat is shameful and disgusting and there are no excuses. I believe that fucking with an extant piece of art in order to promote some political position is stupid and indefensible. Pulling the entire performance because of threats would be a shame but understandable if it were the entire performance that garnered the threats. But pulling it because some bozo tacked on a stupid political statement and apparently won’t remove it is just idiocy. Allowing the bozo to tack on the stupid political statement is just idiocy _even if it had garnered no threats_. [/QUOTE] Artists have the right to tack on what they want. It may be stupid, it may not be stupid, but it’s their–and your–right to make bad art, just as it’s your right to give it a bad review or to avoid it. Threats against bad art are just as bad as threats against good art. If someone ended a performance of Hamlet by having the dead Hamlet and Laertes jump up and launch in to a long diatribe against the war in Iraq, that would be really really stupid. If a bunch of pissed off right-wingers forced theaters to not show the play under threat of violence, that would be much worse than any stupid play. ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/14 "2006-09-27T15:20:53Z")
The CNN report does not mention a threat, just the police claiming " incalculable security risk". Does anyone feels the German police were acting in a racist / anti Muslim way when expecting risk from Muslims and not Christians, Buddhists, or Posidonists? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/15 "2006-09-27T15:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] I don’t know. I look at the words of the leader of the Islamic Council, and I just get frustrated. He says it’s horrible that people have to be affraid, but is he speaking out against subversive violence in his religious community? If not, then that’s just lip-service, and what he’s really saying is, “geez, it sucks to be you, to have to be affraid.” [/QUOTE] What makes you think that he might be condoning violence? e.g. On the website of his organization you’ll find a statement denouncing the recent attempted attacks on trains in Germany: [Not in our name! - Muslim organizations against terror and violence](http://www.islamrat.de/presse/p2006/bombenattentate.html) (German only unfortunately) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/16 "2006-09-27T16:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Artists have the right to tack on what they want. It may be stupid, it may not be stupid, but it’s their–and your–right to make bad art, just as it’s your right to give it a bad review or to avoid it. Threats against bad art are just as bad as threats against good art. [/QUOTE] To me, the OP is talking about there being two sides to this argument–neither of them being terrorists. You seem to be looking at this as “artist versus terrorist.” I’m looking at this as “artist versus people frightened of terrorists.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/17 "2006-09-27T17:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Religious terror is absolutely unjustified under any and all circumstances. The threat is shameful and disgusting and there are no excuses. I believe that fucking with an extant piece of art in order to promote some political position is stupid and indefensible. Pulling the entire performance because of threats would be a shame but understandable if it were the entire performance that garnered the threats. But pulling it because some bozo tacked on a stupid political statement and apparently won’t remove it is just idiocy. Allowing the bozo to tack on the stupid political statement is just idiocy _even if it had garnered no threats_. [/QUOTE] I agree that adding to Mozart’s work (apparently just to stir the shit) is probably not such a hot idea. But what if a new artist created a piece that included all the things the muslim community is getting all lathered up over? Do we censor anything that annoys them? Do we send an envoy to the middle east to teach them how resist buying tickets to the performance? What’s the answer? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/18 "2006-09-27T17:20:59Z")
?? Idomeneos was king of Crete during the Trojan War. What are Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed even _doing_ there? They shouldn’t exist yet! Thisd looks like something deliberately intended to be provocative. I suspect they’re sitting back and taking note of the lack of outrage from Christians, Buddhists, and the random Greek-god-worshipping Pagans to contrast with any Muslim reaction. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/19 "2006-09-27T17:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] But what if a new artist created a piece that included all the things the muslim community is getting all lathered up over? Do we censor anything that annoys them? Do we send an envoy to the middle east to teach them how resist buying tickets to the performance? What’s the answer? [/QUOTE] Who is “we”? I would support a house choosing to show the new work, and I would support a house not choosing to show it. But with a new work, I’d say that things are much more honest, not this lame hiding behind Mozart. Choosing not to tweak a psycho’s nose if you think they might beat you to death isn’t cowardice (which has come up before, not in this thread) and isn’t censorship. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353/20 "2006-09-27T17:36:39Z")
On the one hand we have an artiste making a stupid statement unconnected with the artwork. On the other hand, we have the people who own his venue asking him to drop the stupid statement because it might lead to trouble for them, their customers, and their property. He gets petulant about artistic integrity. I assume this was followed by repeated conversations that consisted of “Pretty please?” and “NO!” Finally they tell him to piss off and find someplace else to get political. Sounds like the Free Enterprise System in action. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozart-opera-in-berlin-cancelled-for-fear-of-muslims-complex-story/374353.md?page=2)