# Mozilla CEO pays the price for not being in favor of gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359 "2014-04-04T18:03:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/241 "2014-04-10T05:31:13Z")
[More from the homophobe:](http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/04/06/the-quality-of-mercy/) > [@](#): > > Thank you for the hundreds and hundreds of emails about the Mozilla-Eich affair. My readers overwhelmingly disagree with me for a host of reasons. But I have to say that this time, the more I have mulled this over, the more convinced I am that my initial response to this is absolutely the right one. And not just the right one, but a vital one to defend at this juncture in the gay rights movement. > > \ > > The ability to work alongside or for people with whom we have a deep political disagreement is not a minor issue in a liberal society. It is a core foundation of toleration. We either develop the ability to tolerate those with whom we deeply disagree, or liberal society is basically impossible. Civil conversation becomes culture war; arguments and reason cede to emotion and anger. And let me reiterate: this principle of toleration has recently been attacked by many more on the far right than on the far left. I’m appalled, for example, at how great gay teachers have been fired by Catholic schools, even though it is within the right of the schools to do so. It’s awful that individuals are fired for being gay with no legal recourse all over the country. But if we rightly feel this way about gays in the workplace, why do we not feel the same about our opponents? And on what grounds can we celebrate the resignation of someone for his off-workplace political beliefs? Payback? Revenge? Some liberal principles, in my view, are worth defending whether they are assailed by left or right. > > I’m then informed that opposition to marriage equality is not just a political belief. It’s a profound insight into whether someone is a decent moral person or a bigot. And this belief is also held with absolute certainty – the same absolute certainty of righteousness that many Christianists have. > > \ > > And one ugly manifestation of absolute certainty in near-theological movements is their approach to dissidents. Dissidents in these absolutist groups are outlawed, condescended to, pressured, bullied, lied about, trashed, slandered, and distorted out of any recognition. In this case, a geeky genius who invented Javascript and who had pledged total inclusivity in the workplace instantly became the equivalent of a Grand Master in the Ku Klux Klan. And yes, that analogy was – amazingly – everywhere! The actual, complicated, flawed human being was erased by thousands who never knew him but knew enough to hate him. Because that’s all they need to know. No space was really given for meaningful dialogue; and, most importantly, no mercy was given without total public repentance. > > \ > > Read this astonishing post from Mozilla’s Mark Surman. Eich may have been “one of the most inspiring humans that I have ever met” and “a true hero for many of us” but that was not enough: > > Many calm and reasonable people said “Brendan, I want you to lead Mozilla. But I also want you to feel my pain.” Brendan didn’t need to change his mind on Proposition 8 to get out of the crisis of the past week. He simply needed to project and communicate empathy. His failure to do so proved to be his fatal flaw as CEO. > > … > > I’m sorry but Surman is full of shit – as, I might add, is his profoundly intolerant company. Eich begged for mercy; he asked to be given a fair shot to prove he wasn’t David Duke; he directly interacted with those he had hurt. He expressed sorrow. He had not the slightest blemish in his professional record. He had invented JavaScript. He was a hero. He pledged to do all he could to make amends. But none of this is ever enough for Inquisitions – and it wasn’t enough in this case. His mind and conscience were the problem. He had to change them or leave. > > A civil rights movement without toleration is not a civil rights movement; it is a cultural campaign to expunge and destroy its opponents. A moral movement without mercy is not moral; it is, when push comes to shove, cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/242 "2014-04-10T07:00:39Z")
And, of course, he’s still misrepresenting the issue. Not as absurd as Limbaugh, but still pretty bad. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/243 "2014-04-10T13:02:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And, of course, he’s still misrepresenting the issue. Not as absurd as Limbaugh, but still pretty bad. How so? Did you read the whole article? He seems to touch on every aspect of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/244 "2014-04-10T13:27:19Z")
I know you think the “homophobe” part is hilarious, but do you really think Andrew Sullivan is a left winger? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/245 "2014-04-10T13:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m then informed that opposition to marriage equality is not just a political belief. It’s a profound insight into whether someone is a decent moral person or a bigot. _Being uncomfortable with the idea_ of two men or two women getting married, and saying so, is a political belief. _Giving money that could have fed a family of four for a month_ to the cause of making it illegal for two men or two women to get married is a profound insight into whether someone is a decent moral person or a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/246 "2014-04-10T13:58:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, if a good reason exists, the homophobes should have presented it by now. They’ve certainly received enough invitations to do so. Indeed. How many times do they have to cough up permutations of the same old “Gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry because derp” non-argument before we can just lump them in with people who believe that Neil Armstrong took one small step onto a sound stage situation firmly upon the 6000-year-old flat earth? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/247 "2014-04-10T14:12:52Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I know you think the “homophobe” part is hilarious, but do you really think Andrew Sullivan is a left winger? No, that was a mistake. Which is why I didn’t use that phrase again when citing his latest blog post. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/248 "2014-04-10T14:28:40Z")
> [@](#): > > The ability to work alongside or for people with whom we have a deep political disagreement is not a minor issue in a liberal society. It is a core foundation of toleration. Indeed. All those intolerant Liberals tolerated Eich before they knew he hated the gay. They tolerated him after they knew he was a raging homophobe and he was Chief Technical Officer. But when he was presented to world as the public face of Mozilla, that’s where the employees drew a line. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/249 "2014-04-10T15:11:09Z")
People disagree with Andrew Sullivan about stuff. Film at 11. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/250 "2014-04-10T15:56:42Z")
Let’s back this up some and start at two extremes … No one would have a problem with a CEO who supported a Presidential candiate that they did not support. Or a host of other deep political disagreements. The vast majority would have a problem with a CEO who was for slavery, or a Holocaust denier, or who supported passing laws to make interracial marriage illegal. They would be tarnishing the brand. A programmer who was a racist or a Nazi on their own time and who kept his/her mouth shut at work? Fine. CEO though would be an issue. All agreed so far? What is happening in our society is that the issue of SSM is at the critical mass where it is, for a new majority fairly rapidly transitioning from being a standard issue political disagreement and becoming a basic human rights issue, becoming thought of in the same way as that latter group. This is becoming true for the country as a whole and is especially true in a relatively progressive demographic such as the one that makes up both those who are Mozilla’s talent and their customer base. This transition of SSM as crossing into basic human rights rather than being a mere deep political disagreement is being expressed in the marketplace and [not only at Mozilla](http://www.christianpost.com/news/graham-cracker-producer-honey-maid-sparks-controversy-with-this-is-wholesome-ad-campaign-featuring-2-gay-men-as-parents-117414/). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/251 "2014-04-10T16:24:21Z")
If you watch the Honeymaid response, try not to think about trypophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/252 "2014-04-10T20:28:09Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > This is just about the best post in the whole thread. > > Because it mentions Silicon Valley. > > Eich wasn’t thrown under the bus due to bunch of anonymous bloggers or a stunt from OK Cupid . It was because his eight year old contribution got under the skins of one very important group of people: the employees. We’re talking about about a group of very, very employable people working for a non-profit in Silicon Valley. They could all walk next door and work for Google and probably get a 25% pay rise. They choose not too because they enjoy working for some happy-clappy feel-good liberal etc. 501c. > > Who just made a homophobic bigot the CEO. > > Losing 20% of your workforce is a high price to pay. Did the people who voted to put this guy in charge not know that Mozilla HQ is less than hour away from San Francisco? He didn’t just piss off employees in general, he pissed off his most important developers. Eich told Rarebit CEO Hampton Catlin, whose own attempts to get married were thwarted by Prop 8, to get bent. That was a no-no. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/253 "2014-04-10T20:44:45Z")
Wait, so it wasn’t some vague public outcry, but concerns that Mozilla’s own programmers and developers would choose of their own free will to not work with Eich? Let freedom ring! ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/254 "2014-04-11T00:04:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Wait, so it wasn’t some vague public outcry, but concerns that Mozilla’s own programmers and developers would choose of their own free will to not work with Eich? > Let freedom ring! The public outcry _followed_ the Free & Independent Choices of Capitalists. Not to be outdone, more captains of industry, namely, OkCupid, scented the blood in the water and got millions of eyeballs without having to pay a dime for them. The only thing that should merit a public outcry is the utter tawdriness of the whole affair. Or, as Colbert says, the system worked! ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/255 "2014-04-12T15:49:15Z")
Are not people allowed to grow and change their positions ? After all six to seven years ago Obama opposed Gay Marriage. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/256 "2014-04-12T16:41:43Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Are not people allowed to grow and change their positions ? > > After all six to seven years ago Obama opposed Gay Marriage. Eich was given several opportunities to explain his current position. He refused to do so. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/257 "2014-04-13T18:36:40Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Are not people allowed to grow and change their positions ? > > After all six to seven years ago Obama opposed Gay Marriage. Is there any evidence that Eich actually changed his position? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/258 "2014-04-13T20:05:09Z")
I find it hard to believe that he would be the right fit for that kind of a position if he chooses to make those kinds of political decisions. This is an internet company, as such it would most likely not be profitable to have someone so out of touch with the political landscape at the helm. Everyone is acting within their rights in this situation IMHO. If the gay community wants to protest someone limiting their rights in such a way that is not bullying that is standing up for your rights in a perfectly legitimate way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359/259 "2014-04-14T14:07:23Z")
In 2008- when he was making Prop 8 donations- Eich wasn’t out of touch with the political landscape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mozilla-ceo-pays-the-price-for-not-being-in-favor-of-gay-marriage/685359.md?page=12)