# MPH of pitches, highest to lowest **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 14, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468 "2011-06-14T18:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/1 "2011-06-14T18:18:40Z")
Generally speaking, rank how hard a MLB pitcher throws these pitches: 12-6 curve Circle change Cutter Forkball 4-Seamer Knuckleball Screwball Sinker Slider Splitter 2-Seamer (If any are redundant, use most common name) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/2 "2011-06-14T18:32:04Z")
Knock yourself out: [http://www.fangraphs.com](http://www.fangraphs.com) Enter a player (pitcher, specifically), click on “PitchFx” and scroll down to “PitchFx Velocity”. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/3 "2011-06-14T18:36:56Z")
Well, no pitcher (that I’m aware of) throws all of those pitches, so there will be variations due to that. Verlander throws a 2-seam fastball faster than many pitchers 4-seamers. Hell, I think Chapman (and others) throws sliders faster than some pitchers’ fastballs. As far as redundancies, I think that typically a sinker is a variant of the 2-seam fastball. And a cut fastball is also a variation of the 2-seam. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/4 "2011-06-14T18:54:27Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Well, no pitcher (that I’m aware of) throws all of those pitches, so there will be variations due to that. Yup. Which is why it’d be great if etv would go to the pitchfx data on fangraphs, and pull some data. It’s going to be a game of “Pitcher A ranks FB2, FB4, Cutter, Slider, Changeup”, “Pitcher B ranks FB4, Splitter, Changeup”, “Pitcher C ranks FB2, Slider, Splitter, Changeup”, etc. (Verlander was the first I thought of to look at as well, for some reason.) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/5 "2011-06-14T19:19:20Z")
I’m not asking about specific pitchers. I just meant the average MPH of the pitches from a Major Leaguer. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/6 "2011-06-14T19:33:51Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I’m not asking about specific pitchers. I just meant the average MPH of the pitches from a Major Leaguer. Nor did any of us. But you’ll need to look at specific pitchers to get a general sense of how fast these pitches are. One guy’s 4-seamer will be faster than someone else’s 2-seamer, and vice versa. But the main info you’ll get is that everybody’s fastball is faster than a splitter is faster than a changeup, etc. So find a bunch of pitchers that pitch all those pitches you listed, and start sorting them. You’ll get some contradictions (as previously mentioned), but you can suss it out from there. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/7 "2011-06-14T19:35:17Z")
The only one I know off the top of my head is Wakefield’s knuckleball comes in best at 67-68 mph. And he’s pretty much the only current effective knuckballer active. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/8 "2011-06-14T19:38:52Z")
This article ([How Do Good Starting Pitchers Differ From Other Pitchers? - Beyond the Box Score](http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/31/2081724/how-do-good-starting-pitchers-differ-from-other-pitchers)) from March 2011 gives the following data for it’s “all pitchers” chart: Fastball - 90.0 Cutter - 86.5 Splitter - 83.9 Slider - 82.1 Change- 81.7 Curve - 76.4 Knuckle - 70.7 Is that what you are looking for? It pretty much tracks with my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/9 "2011-06-14T19:40:08Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > The only one I know off the top of my head is Wakefield’s knuckleball comes in best at 67-68 mph. And he’s pretty much the only current effective knuckballer active. R.A. Dickey is still a starting pitcher for the Mets (your mileage may vary on whether you consider him or his knuckler effective, or whether the Mets now count as a AAA team). He throws his knuckleball at a wide variety of speeds, often much faster than Wakefield. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/10 "2011-06-14T19:46:08Z")
4-Seam 2-Seam/Sinker/Cutter Splitter Slider Forkball Circle change 12-6 Curve Screwball Knuckleball ETA: No data, just my estimates, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/11 "2011-06-14T19:48:24Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > This article ([How Do Good Starting Pitchers Differ From Other Pitchers? - Beyond the Box Score](http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/31/2081724/how-do-good-starting-pitchers-differ-from-other-pitchers)) from March 2011 gives the following data for it’s “all pitchers” chart: > > Fastball - 90.0 > Cutter - 86.5 > Splitter - 83.9 > Slider - 82.1 > Change- 81.7 > Curve - 76.4 > Knuckle - 70.7 > > Is that what you are looking for? It pretty much tracks with my experience. Yup! EXACTLY what I’m looking for! I intuitively knew the top and bottom, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/12 "2011-06-14T19:49:44Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > 4-Seam > 2-Seam/Sinker/Cutter > Splitter > Slider > Forkball > Circle change > 12-6 Curve > Screwball > Knuckleball > > ETA: No data, just my estimates, FWIW. Thanks **RS**! basically lines up how I imagined. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/13 "2011-06-15T03:02:38Z")
A screwball would generally be faster than a 12-6 or a changeup. A screwball is basically a slider in reverse. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/14 "2011-06-15T11:53:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > A screwball would generally be faster than a 12-6 or a changeup. A screwball is basically a slider in reverse. Just because it breaks opposite a slider doesn’t mean you can throw it as hard. It’s a more difficult pitch to throw. It’s hard to find modern screwballers, but the two I know of only throw it at ~65 MPH, slower than both their own sliders and changeups. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mph-of-pitches-highest-to-lowest/585468/15 "2011-06-15T13:45:32Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Fastball - 90.0 > Cutter - 86.5 > Splitter - 83.9 > Slider - 82.1 > Change- 81.7 > Curve - 76.4 > Knuckle - 70.7 This is pretty much exactly how I would have guessed. > [@RickJay](#): > > A screwball would generally be faster than a 12-6 or a changeup. A screwball is basically a slider in reverse. Some pitchers’ circle change \*is \*a screwball. In fact, that’s the only way I know how to throw a screwball.