# MP's are assholes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2001, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827 "2001-04-30T10:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/61 "2001-05-09T08:15:47Z")
_for the sarcasm impaired_ **… SARCASM following …** So, do they give all you military types counseling about living in the real world before they let you out? ---
**Author:** ![Syehoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@Syehoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syehoc)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/62 "2001-05-09T11:10:46Z")
> [@](#): > > - Originally posted by Monty\* > \*\* > I also explicitly asked Syehoc what about the CQ not performing his duty also? > \*\* ``` I'm hoping to finally put this issue to rest, but I'm somehow doubting that you'll accept my explanation. "My barracks" doesn't have a CQ. Very few barracks on the post do. It's used as a punishment, (excuse me,) corrective training method for the buildings that become too rowdy on the weekends. ``` > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > He has a right to that opinion. You will also note that later in the thread he showed that he was, in all likelihood “too young” for his current rank based on non-waiver advancement criteria. As I mentioned above “what’s good for the MP is good for the driver.” > \*\* I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that promoting a soldier early is a decision that gives the soldier a rank that he is not ready for? I was under the impression that it was just a way of showing the soldier that he his hard work doesn’t go unnoticed, and a way of keeping up moral. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\* > “Maybe I don’t care.” > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > Thus showing that he does not care what the actual facts of the event he related are, he just wants to castigate an entire group of people based on the actions of one individual member of that group–an individual who was performing his duty > \*\* Saying “maybe I don’t care” was one of my mistakes, forgetting to “use tact” while posting. I was mad and if I didn’t care, I would’t have made the post. My attitude toward MP’s in not based on the actions of that ONE individual. My self and my peers have had more than **one** incident with more than **one** MP where they seemed to be a bit out of line. I called them assholes, as a collective. I think they’re trained to think they’re better than the general military population. One of my best high school friends has grown up to be an MP, he’s an asshole, but still one of my best friends. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > Both the individuals assigned space in the barracks and the individuals assigned duties as Charge of Quarters are responsible for not only obeying the regulations but also for enforcing same. That kind of speaks for itself, IMHO. Anyway, MrC already discussed obligation. > \*\* ## You bring this up **again** and I’ll tell you again. I know I was wrong for not saying anything. There was an entire building full of people who witnessed this and didn’t say anything. ## Soon to be a quote: If they jumped off of a building, would you? ``` Probably ``` > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > The SDO stands a 24 hour watch and is supposed to be awake while on watch. That Syehoc assumed the SDO is asleep shows that he has no concern for (a) his base, if his assertion is true, or (b) no concern for the facts, if his assertion is false. Since he waffled on said assertion, I’ll go with (b). > \*\* I feel like I am forced to constantly repeat myself when replying to you. I **did not** assume that the SDO was sleeping. I am COMPLETELY AWARE that his duty requires him to stay awake for the entire 24 hours. Another one of those sarcastic (got it right this time people) remarks that you have such a difficult time picking up on. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > Thus accusing the base Chain of Command, and the Inspector General, of not giving credence at all to complaints made by junior personnel. If his complaints were not taken seriously, they were treated in such manner based on their merits or lack thereof - not based on rank. > \*\* How can you automatically assume that every section (from command all the way down to squad) reacts to situations in exactly the same way? The one person in charge just has to be having a bad day and, though it may not be legal, chose to over-punish a soldier or disregard a complaint. Forgive the vagueness of those examples. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\* > “Punishments such as reduction in rank and bad conduct discharges are reserved for crimes to the caliber of drug offences and going AWOL.” > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* Either a falsehood or merely a mistake. I pointed Syehoc to where he could get the correct information > \*\* Appropriate reply posted directly above. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > Actually, an 88M1O is not “basically a truck driver.” He is basically a Soldier, albeit a Soldier whose primary duty is to drive trucks. I see a distinction between the two statements. > \*\* A pointless post. Everyone in the army is basically a soldier. Not everyone knows the nomenclature of every MOS in the military, therefore, I was simply clarifying what I did for those people. My apologize for calling you a burnout. At the time it seemed like a good way to come back at someone who abruptly called me a cry baby. As I said before, I’m not a “bad soldier.” I have already told you that I have done nothing but excel above my peers (most of them anyway) from BCT until now. Well, maybe I did a little complaining along the way as well. I urge you to stop losing sleep at night worrying about another “bad NCO” being inducted into the core. I’ll be out of the army in a year and a half to pursue my ambition to be a full time student. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/63 "2001-05-09T14:32:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Syehoc \* > > > [@](#): > > > > - Originally posted by Monty\* > > \*\* > > I also explicitly asked Syehoc what about the CQ not performing his duty also? > > \*\* > > ``` > I'm hoping to finally put this issue to rest, but I'm somehow doubting that you'll accept my explanation. "My barracks" doesn't have a CQ. Very few barracks on the post do. It's used as a punishment, (excuse me,) corrective training method for the buildings that become too rowdy on the weekends. > > ``` I doubt that assertion. A watch for health and safety populated entirely by those who’re being punished? I think anyone can see the possible bad fallout of that. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > He has a right to that opinion. You will also note that later in the thread he showed that he was, in all likelihood “too young” for his current rank based on non-waiver advancement criteria. As I mentioned above “what’s good for the MP is good for the driver.” > > I’m not sure I understand. You obviously did not understand. > [@](#): > > Are you saying that promoting a soldier early is a decision that gives the soldier a rank that he is not ready for? No, YOU are saying that. I base that assertion on your remark about the MP’s age. I will also redirect your attention to your comment about ALL Military Police. > [@](#): > > I was under the impression that it was just a way of showing the soldier that he his hard work doesn’t go unnoticed, and a way of keeping up moral. It is a way of keeping up morale and it is a way of rewarding a good Soldier. But since you have stereotyped ALL Military Police, you are purposely ignoring your own knowledge of this. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > “Maybe I don’t care.” > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Thus showing that he does not care what the actual facts of the event he related are, he just wants to castigate an entire group of people based on the actions of one individual member of that group–an individual who was performing his duty > > Saying “maybe I don’t care” was one of my mistakes, forgetting to “use tact” while posting. You also forgot to use fact while posting. > [@](#): > > I was mad and if I didn’t care, I would’t have made the post. So how do you drive when someone gets you mad on the road? Do you disregard the evidence in front of you and do what you feel like? I’ll also point out that only YOU can make YOU angry - it’s a chosen reaction. > [@](#): > > My attitude toward MP’s in not based on the actions of that ONE individual. My self and my peers have had more than **one** incident with more than **one** MP where they seemed to be a bit out of line. I called them assholes, as a collective. You are still missing the point that this still does not constitute all Military Police and thus your condemnation of an entire group is prejudice. > [@](#): > > I think they’re trained to think they’re better than the general military population. Do you have direct knowledge of this from their training or is this merely another WAG? Anyway, what about your feelings towards the general military population and yourself? Seems to me like you think you’re just a tad better than the general military population of your unit. But I might be wrong. > [@](#): > > One of my best high school friends has grown up to be an MP, he’s an asshole, but still one of my best friends. Still doesn’t constitute all Military Police. He’s your friend and you see what you evidently consider a serious character and professional fault in a Soldier? Done anything to dissuade him of that or do you not care about your friends either? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Both the individuals assigned space in the barracks and the individuals assigned duties as Charge of Quarters are responsible for not only obeying the regulations but also for enforcing same. That kind of speaks for itself, IMHO. Anyway, MrC already discussed obligation. > > You bring this up **again** and I’ll tell you again. I know I was wrong for not saying anything. There was an entire building full of people who witnessed this and didn’t say anything. Irrelevant as others’ lack of action does not excuse your dereliction of duty. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Soon to be a quote: > > If they jumped off of a building, would you? > > ``` > Probably > > ``` Again, your speculation is pathetically incorrect. Someone jumping off a building is endangering himself. My moral and legal obligation, if I were present on the rooftop and within reach, would be to stop that person from doing so - not merely watching him leap to his death or serious harm. Your action, along with those others present in the Barracks is not unlike someone standing by and watching the jumper. You had both the means and the opportunity to carry out your duty and by your own admission, you failed to do so. You also compound that error by taking refuge in the group of those who were derelict. That’s just sad. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > The SDO stands a 24 hour watch and is supposed to be awake while on watch. That Syehoc assumed the SDO is asleep shows that he has no concern for (a) his base, if his assertion is true, or (b) no concern for the facts, if his assertion is false. Since he waffled on said assertion, I’ll go with (b). > > I feel like I am forced to constantly repeat myself when replying to you. I **did not** assume that the SDO was sleeping. You accused the SDO of sleeping and used that false accusation (you now admit it’s false) to justify your dereliction. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a lie. > [@](#): > > I am COMPLETELY AWARE that his duty requires him to stay awake for the entire 24 hours. Then you should’ve made the assumption that he was awake and carried out your obligation. > [@](#): > > Another one of those sarcastic (got it right this time people) remarks that you have such a difficult time picking up on. I’m having no problems with sarcasm. I am having a problem with understanding why you’re minimizing your serious accusations against others when you admit they’re unfounded. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Thus accusing the base Chain of Command, and the Inspector General, of not giving credence at all to complaints made by junior personnel. If his complaints were not taken seriously, they were treated in such manner based on their merits or lack thereof - not based on rank. > > How can you automatically assume that every section (from command all the way down to squad) reacts to situations in exactly the same way? The one person in charge just has to be having a bad day and, though it may not be legal, chose to over-punish a soldier or disregard a complaint. Forgive the vagueness of those examples. I do not assume that every unit works in an identical manner. I do know for a fact, though, that you have a means of redress using the grievance system. If you feel you were overpunished or one of your complaints was unfairly considered, it is incumbent upon YOU to initiate action under the grievance system. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > \*\* > > “Punishments such as reduction in rank and bad conduct discharges are reserved for crimes to the caliber of drug offences and going AWOL.” > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > \*\* Either a falsehood or merely a mistake. I pointed Syehoc to where he could get the correct information > > \*\* > > Appropriate reply posted directly above. And yet again, you made a statement contrary to fact. I indicated where you could get the factual information. You assetion was that BCD was reserved for a certain type of offense when it is not. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Actually, an 88M1O is not “basically a truck driver.” He is basically a Soldier, albeit a Soldier whose primary duty is to drive trucks. I see a distinction between the two statements. > > \*\* > > A pointless post. Everyone in the army is basically a soldier. Not pointless as you evidently understand that you, as part of everyone in the Army, are also a Soldier. > [@](#): > > Not everyone knows the nomenclature of every MOS in the military, therefore, I was simply clarifying what I did for those people. That’s good so far as it goes. But the point still remains that you are not basically a truck driver, you are a Soldier. > [@](#): > > My apologize for calling you a burnout. So you understand that it was a remark based on your prejudice? > [@](#): > > At the time it seemed like a good way to come back at someone who abruptly called me a cry baby. It wasn’t a good way as I did not abruptly call you that. Here’s what I said: > [@](#): > > IMHO: You’re catching grief in this thread because you’re comming across as a cry-baby. This was immediately after my initial remarks on the grievance system. > [@](#): > > As I said before, I’m not a “bad soldier.” I have already told you that I have done nothing but excel above my peers (most of them anyway) from BCT until now. Well, maybe I did a little complaining along the way as well. Hey, people, especially Soldiers, have a right to complain. But you should recognize that your complaints should not be based on prejudices. > [@](#): > > I urge you to stop losing sleep at night worrying about another “bad NCO” being inducted into the core. I’m not losing sleep over it. I think the Army’s promotion system, although somewhat flawed IMHO, does its best to prevent that. When that fails, there’s always the grievance system to which I have directed your attention. > [@](#): > > I’ll be out of the army in a year and a half to pursue my ambition to be a full time student. 1. I certainly hope you availed yourself of the MGIB. 2. Why not get the most you can out of the Army during your time in? Drop some of your prejudices and become a good NCO in the time left. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/64 "2001-05-09T14:40:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > _for the sarcasm impaired_ > **… SARCASM following …** > > So, do they give all you military types counseling about living in the real world before they let you out? Actually, yes. Attendance at a Transition Assistance class is mandatory prior to normal separation from the military. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/65 "2001-05-09T15:01:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > \*\*_for the sarcasm impaired_ > **… SARCASM following …** > > So, do they give all you military types counseling about living in the real world before they let you out? \*\* I spy someone who got an “A” in asshole training. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/66 "2001-05-09T22:35:25Z")
Y’know, Monty, you seem to have a lot of respect for military traditions, and the by-the-book way of doing things. I respect a guy with principles, I really do. What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years combined Army/Navy you expect every person in the military to behave in a manner that befits the uniform. Let me rephrase that: What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years, you **don’t** expect most military personnel to throw their weight around and act like pompous assholes given the chance. I’m not saying you’re one of these; again, I reiterate that I respect your principles. However, let me briefly tell the story of my very short (10 months) stint in the Navy. 19 years old, naive as hell, decide to join the Navy. Take ASVAB, score 97th percentile. Color-blind, so I am only offered: Machinist’s Mate and Hospital Corpsman. Talked with recruiter about options. Ask if MM does the same thing a machinist does in civilian life (metalworking, toll making, die-cutting)\*. Recruiter says, “Uh, yeah sure.” Recruiter is a BT1 (knew better). So I sign up for a 6 year hitch, accelerated advancement, on a plan to become E4 after 8 months active (“buttonpusher”, if you will). Go to basic training (beee-fucking-utiful Great Lakes RTC). Get insulted right off the bus and told I’m a worthless shit (never tell a person with an IQ of 160 he’s worhtless, it just lacks validity). In boot camp for 12 weeks (took 4 weeks for our company, a special performance 900 company, to form up). Get to “A” School after leave, sit aroung the galley for a month before my class froms up. \*First day of school, I see course training and realize I’m going to be a glorified plumber/steamfitter. Tell my instructor on the first day that I didn’t sign up for this. Get told “tough shit.” Tell him my recruiter lied to me. Get told “and you’re surprised?” Start thinking about how I’m going to handle 6 years of this shit. Complain first to my CC. Get laughed at. Complain to the divisional Cheif. Get laughed at, and told (verbatim) “Uncle Sam owns your ass now, boy.” Complain all the way up the chain of command, like a good little sailor, to the CXO, who blows me off. Give up, and for the next few months or so, drink myself silly, hoping to get busted down for underage drinking at least. Finally, go speak to the chaplain, tell him my story, he sets me up to see a shrink, of all things. After a month or so seeing the shrink, he deems me to be unfit for military service. About a week later, my CC calls me into his office, tells me that the orders for my seperation were rescinded. Find out from his yoeman (who was a drinking buddy) that I **am** getting out. CC lied so I would be AWOL for my transfer to the Transient Personnel Unit (which, beleive it or not, would have led to my seperation orders being rescinded). I know this because my buddy overheard CC joking about it with his assistant that day. All the while, I am still going to classes, and in fact have recieved my E-4 promotion after 8 months active. Get processed out, with an honorable discharge, 10 months GI Bill, VA loan eligibility, and some ugly fucking clothes. Oh, and by the way, every time I had a run-in with Shore Patrol, they were assholes. What my experience taught me is that there is none of the fabled military discipline and honor that existed when my dad and uncles were in (late 50’s, early 60’s). It also taught me that the UCMJ doesn’t mean jack shit to most of those in charge, considering that UCMJ codes were broken on several occasions, all the way up the chain of command. The memories I carry with me from my experience were of the recruiter who could have ruined my life just to make his fucking recruitment quota, of the petty bullshit that my CC put me through just for his entertainment, and of the dictatorial attitude I witnessed from most of those in power. And before anyone pisses on me for not reading the enlistment agrement better, all I have to say is I trusted my recruiter, a First Class Petty Officer of the United States Navy, to maintain his principles and tell me the truth, and he fucking lied. Whether I should have read the contract before signing it is a moot point. P.S. Through all this, no one told me that it is acceptable for a trainee to bow out with a General Discharge before hitting their first active assignment. Assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/67 "2001-05-09T23:19:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crown Prince of Irony \* > Y’know, Monty, you seem to have a lot of respect for military traditions, and the by-the-book way of doing things. I respect a guy with principles, I really do. Given the rest of your posting, that certainly doesn’t include you. > [@](#): > > What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years combined Army/Navy you expect every person in the military to behave in a manner that befits the uniform. I don’t expect every single person to do so. If you read that into my postings then you have a serious problem with comprehending the written word. What I do expect though is for adults to not cry about someone else’s actions when they get caught themselves–especially when the person doing the catching is just doing his job. > [@](#): > > Let me rephrase that: What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years, you **don’t** expect most military personnel to throw their weight around and act like pompous assholes given the chance. In my 20 years experience, the vast majority of military personnel I encountered did not act as you stereotype them. > [@](#): > > I’m not saying you’re one of these; again, I reiterate that I respect your principles. Then why did you mention this if it’s 100% irrelevant to your so-called point? > [@](#): > > However, let me briefly tell the story of my very short (10 months) stint in the Navy. Whatever. > [@](#): > > 19 years old, naive as hell, decide to join the Navy. > Take ASVAB, score 97th percentile. Color-blind, so I am only offered: Machinist’s Mate and Hospital Corpsman. Both fields with members at all ranks, to include Warrant and Commissioned Officers. > [@](#): > > Talked with recruiter about options. Ask if MM does the same thing a machinist does in civilian life (metalworking, toll making, die-cutting)\*. There’s also the written description of what those ratings encompass. Did you bother to check that? After all, it’s right there for your perusal in the recruiter’s office. > [@](#): > > Recruiter says, “Uh, yeah sure.” Recruiter is a BT1 (knew better). So you didn’t bother to read it yourself? > [@](#): > > So I sign up for a 6 year hitch, accelerated advancement, on a plan to become E4 after 8 months active (“buttonpusher”, if you will). That’s actually a good program. > [@](#): > > Go to basic training (beee-fucking-utiful Great Lakes RTC). Kind of standard for folks enlisting, you realize, to go through Basic Training. > [@](#): > > Get insulted right off the bus and told I’m a worthless shit (never tell a person with an IQ of 160 he’s worhtless, it just lacks validity). So why did you value that individual’s opinion of you so highly? Did you think it was true or untrue? > [@](#): > > In boot camp for 12 weeks (took 4 weeks for our company, a special performance 900 company, to form up). > Get to “A” School after leave, sit aroung the galley for a month before my class froms up. I’m quite sure you left out the numerous details assigned to you and the other classmates while waiting for the course to actually begin. > [@](#): > > \*First day of school, I see course training and realize I’m going to be a glorified plumber/steamfitter. > Tell my instructor on the first day that I didn’t sign up for this. Oh, I see you didn’t read your enlistment contract either. > [@](#): > > Get told “tough shit.” > Tell him my recruiter lied to me. > Get told “and you’re surprised?” The proper action is to avail yourself of the grievance system. Also, if you have proof that your recruiter did lie to you, then the proper action is to refer it to the base Legal Office. > [@](#): > > Start thinking about how I’m going to handle 6 years of this shit. See above. > [@](#): > > Complain first to my CC. Get laughed at. > Complain to the divisional Cheif. Get laughed at, and told (verbatim) “Uncle Sam owns your ass now, boy.” See again the above comments regarding the grievance system. Also, “Uncle Sam” does not, and can not, own you. The government, on the other hand, can and does expect you to honor your contracted obligations, voluntarily contracted I might add. > [@](#): > > Complain all the way up the chain of command, like a good little sailor, to the CXO, who blows me off. That’s not all the way up the Chain of Command. There is still the grievance system and the base Legal Office. > [@](#): > > Give up, and for the next few months or so, drink myself silly, hoping to get busted down for underage drinking at least. That’s not even close to an intelligent approach to your perceived problem. > [@](#): > > Finally, go speak to the chaplain, tell him my story, he sets me up to see a shrink, of all things. Did the Chaplain tell you why? I’m guessing here that it had something to do with your diving into the bottle to get into trouble to get kicked out instead of availing yourself of the grievance system. > [@](#): > > After a month or so seeing the shrink, he deems me to be unfit for military service. Let’s see: you didn’t request an Administrative Board Hearing regarding the proposed ADSEP for being unfit for military service? > [@](#): > > About a week later, my CC calls me into his office, tells me that the orders for my seperation were rescinded. Got any proof or just making similar character assassination to Syehoc’s earlier ones? > [@](#): > > Find out from his yoeman (who was a drinking buddy) that I **am** getting out. The yeoman is not the commanding officer nor is he part of the Chain of Command. > [@](#): > > CC lied so I would be AWOL for my transfer to the Transient Personnel Unit (which, beleive it or not, would have led to my seperation orders being rescinded). I know this because my buddy overheard CC joking about it with his assistant that day. Are you familiar with the term “hearsay?” > [@](#): > > All the while, I am still going to classes, and in fact have recieved my E-4 promotion after 8 months active. > Get processed out, with an honorable discharge, 10 months GI Bill, VA loan eligibility, and some ugly fucking clothes. > Oh, and by the way, every time I had a run-in with Shore Patrol, they were assholes. There’s an old poem which basically describes one parishioner who’s not happy with any of the churches he’s attended. Someone finally asks him if perhaps it’s not the church. > [@](#): > > What my experience taught me is that there is none of the fabled military discipline and honor that existed when my dad and uncles were in (late 50’s, early 60’s). It also taught me that the UCMJ doesn’t mean jack shit to most of those in charge, considering that UCMJ codes were broken on several occasions, all the way up the chain of command. I consider your rendition of what happened to you to be a quite biased and dishonest description of the events. > [@](#): > > The memories I carry with me from my experience were of the recruiter who could have ruined my life just to make his fucking recruitment quota, of the petty bullshit that my CC put me through just for his entertainment, and of the dictatorial attitude I witnessed from most of those in power. Or you could have carried out your voluntarily incurred obligations and been one damn good Machinist’s Mate. Who knows, you might even have gone on to be the CHENG of a ship if you got commissioned. > [@](#): > > And before anyone pisses on me for not reading the enlistment agrement better, all I have to say is I trusted my recruiter, Right. You didn’t see that little box which said “I understand that there are not other promises to me other than what is contained in this agreement?” > [@](#): > > a First Class Petty Officer of the United States Navy, to maintain his principles and tell me the truth, and he fucking lied. Whether I should have read the contract before signing it is a moot point. Actually, it’s not. You do not know the reasons that individual did what you accuse him of doing. You might be right and then again you might be wrong. Since you didn’t bother to avail yourself of the remedies available, one can only infer that you are probably wrong. > [@](#): > > P.S. Through all this, no one told me that it is acceptable for a trainee to bow out with a General Discharge before hitting their first active assignment. Assholes. I refer you above to your lack of availing yourself of the remedies available. Also, you would have had to see the base Legal Office at some point in the Separation process. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/68 "2001-05-10T04:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manservant Hecubus \* > I spy someone who got an “A” in asshole training. Was this a class they offered in Basic Training? I think we have found the problem folks! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/69 "2001-05-10T05:01:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Manservant Hecubus \* > > I spy someone who got an “A” in asshole training. > > Was this a class they offered in Basic Training? > I think we have found the problem folks! \*\* You wrote the course, assholio. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/70 "2001-05-10T05:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manservant Hecubus \* > You wrote the course, assholio. I’ll take that as a complement. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/71 "2001-05-10T07:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Get insulted right off the bus and told I’m a worthless shit (never tell a person with an IQ of 160 he’s worhtless, it just lacks validity). Looking over your post, I don’t see that it does, assuming that you’re referring to yourself as the one with the IQ over 160. Which would be about the 99th percentile of the overall population, and certainly smart enough to read an enlistment contract. > [@](#): > > What my experience taught me is that there is none of the fabled military discipline and honor that existed when my dad and uncles were in (late 50’s, early 60’s). None? I take it then that you witnessed the entire Navy while at A school. Monty: > [@](#): > > Who knows, you might even have gone on to be the CHENG of a ship if you got commissioned. Actually, I believe that color-blindness would make him ineligible for unrestricted line billets. ---
**Author:** ![Syehoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@Syehoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syehoc)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/72 "2001-05-10T12:15:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > I doubt that assertion. A watch for health and safety populated entirely by those who’re being punished? I think anyone can see the possible bad fallout of that. > \*\* Of course you do. I don’t make the rules, but this is one that I happen to agree with. If the building isn’t having any problems with violence or vandalism, it doesn’t need a baby sitter. On the other hand, a building with a maturity problem needs to be monitored. The fact that the CQ is there out of punishment really makes no difference, the mission is still completed. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\* > Saying “maybe I don’t care” was one of my mistakes, forgetting to “use tact” while posting. > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*You also forgot to use fact while posting. > \*\* That’s a very clever rhyme, but what are you talking about? I’ve used “fact” wherever needed. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > So how do you drive when someone gets you mad on the road? Do you disregard the evidence in front of you and do what you feel like? I’ll also point out that only YOU can make YOU angry - it’s a chosen reaction. > \*\* Focus, Monty. Are you giving me a parental lecture or tanning my ass with words of prior military wisdom? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > You are still missing the point that this still does not constitute all Military Police and thus your condemnation of an entire group is prejudice. > \*\* Has anyone ever told you that you repeat yourself **allot**? prejudice: The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. Due to the unpleasant experiences that I have had with MP’s so far, I do initially approach them with a not so cordial attitude. If this person treats me with respect, that is exactly what they get from me. As far as I’m concerned, they’re overall reputation is tainted, but it all comes down to the individual person I’m dealing with. I guess by definition, that is a prejudice, but my attitude can easily be changed by someone who proves my initial conviction wrong. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\*I think they’re trained to think they’re better than the general military population. > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*Do you have direct knowledge of this from their or is this merely another WAG? > \*\* Did I not say “I think?” Anyway, I don’t believe it’s direct. I can’t picture an instructor saying, “At 1300 you’ll receive a block of training on how to be a prick who thinks your shit smells better than everyone else’s.” I can, though, **imagine** (in bold so that you don’t ask me if I witnessed this first hand, which you’ll probably do anyway) their entire AIT filled with phrases like “it’s up to **you** ” and “ **you** have the final say.” > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\* > One of my best high school friends has grown up to be an MP, he’s an asshole, but still one of my best friends. > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*Still doesn’t constitute all Military Police. He’s your friend and you see what you evidently consider a serious character and professional fault in a Soldier? Done anything to dissuade him of that or do you not care about your friends either? \*\* Pete and Repeat were sitting on a log. I did not attempt to dissuade my friend of being an asshole. Therefore I don’t care about any of my friends. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > ## _Originally posted by Syehoc_ \*\* Soon to be a quote: If they jumped off of a building, would you? > > Probably > \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*Again, your speculation is pathetically incorrect. > > Someone jumping off a building is endangering himself. My moral and legal obligation, if I were present on the rooftop and within reach, would be to stop that person from doing so - not merely watching him leap to his death or serious harm. Your action, along with those others present in the Barracks is not unlike someone standing by and watching the jumper. You had both the means and the opportunity to carry out your duty and by your own admission, you failed to do so. You also compound that error by taking refuge in the group of those who were derelict. That’s just sad. \*\* ``` As your ability to pick up on a figurative statement is pathetic. **no one is jumping off a building!** I think I've addressed the rest of this paragraph a couple of times before. ``` > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > You accused the SDO of sleeping and used that false accusation (you now admit it’s false) to justify your dereliction. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a lie. > \*\* Horse piss. I’ll repeat myself yet again. I did not accuse nor believe that the SDO was sleeping. That was a joke, an attempt at making someone chuckle. Get over it. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > Then you should’ve made the assumption that he was awake and carried out your obligation. \*\* Already addressed > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > **A pointless post. Everyone in the army is basically a soldier.** > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*Not pointless as you evidently understand that you, as part of everyone in the Army, are also a Soldier. \*\* It **is** pointless, as I have always understood that I was a soldier. This is not something that you have suddenly brought to my attention. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Syehoc_ > \*\* My apologize for calling you a burnout.\*\* one day…I will learn to construct simple sentences. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > **So you understand that it was a remark based on your prejudice?** No, I understand that I felt bad about calling you a burnout, try not to read too much into things. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > **At the time it seemed like a good way to come back at someone who abruptly called me a cry baby.** > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\*It wasn’t a good way as I did not abruptly call you that. Here’s what I said: > IMHO: You’re catching grief in this thread because you’re comming across as a cry-baby > \*\* ``` Actually, that's not the little remark I was referring to. "Syehoc is a fucking cry baby so far, ergo he's a piss poor Soldier." Nah, not at all abrupt. :rolleyes: ``` > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > \*\* > > 1. I certainly hope you availed yourself of the MGIB. > 2. Why not get the most you can out of the Army during your time in? Drop some of your prejudices and become a good NCO in the time left.\*\* 1. Of course 2. Anything’s possible, considering I drop **some** of my prejudice **s** ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/73 "2001-05-10T21:18:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Syehoc \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > > > I doubt that assertion. A watch for health and safety populated entirely by those who’re being punished? I think anyone can see the possible bad fallout of that. > > \*\* > > Of course you do. I don’t make the rules, but this is one that I happen to agree with. If the building isn’t having any problems with violence or vandalism, it doesn’t need a baby sitter. Nice of you to minimize the CQ’s duty by equating it with babysitting. Not to mention the implication that all of the Sodliers there are babies. BTW, haven’t you been complaining about being called a baby? Also, I did not call ALL Soldiers crybabies–just you. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, a building with a maturity problem needs to be monitored. The fact that the CQ is there out of punishment really makes no difference, the mission is still completed. Quick quiz for you: Who’s going to be more interested in performing the task: Soldier A who considers it his duty, or Soldier B who’s being punished? > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > Saying “maybe I don’t care” was one of my mistakes, forgetting to “use tact” while posting. > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > You also forgot to use fact while posting. > > That’s a very clever rhyme, but what are you talking about? I’ve used “fact” wherever needed. Uh-uh. Sure. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > So how do you drive when someone gets you mad on the road? Do you disregard the evidence in front of you and do what you feel like? I’ll also point out that only YOU can make YOU angry - it’s a chosen reaction. > > Focus, Monty. Kind of like the way you focused on the stop sign you ran in view of the MP? > [@](#): > > Are you giving me a parental lecture or tanning my ass with words of prior military wisdom? Yes. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > You are still missing the point that this still does not constitute all Military Police and thus your condemnation of an entire group is prejudice. > > Has anyone ever told you that you repeat yourself **allot?** Yes. Repetition is also part of reinforcement, which just happens to be another method of educating. “Allot” means “to distribute” and “a lot” means “much or many.” > [@](#): > > prejudice: The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. Well, here’s the full definition I find at Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary: [/quote] prej_u_dice [1] (noun) [Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment – more at JUDICIAL] First appeared 13th Century 1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another i n disregard of one’s rights; especially : detriment to one’s legal rights or claims 2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion ``` (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge ``` b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics synonym see PREDILECTION [/quote] You will note that definitions 2a(2) and 2c are on point when discussing your particular situation in this particular thread. > [@](#): > > Due to the unpleasant experiences that I have had with MP’s so far, I do initially approach them with a not so cordial attitude. So based on the actions of one or a few, you approach every other MP with hostility and you wonder why they have a problem with you? Truly amazing. > [@](#): > > If this person treats me with respect, that is exactly what they get from me. And yet, by your own admission immediately above, you do not approach the MP with respect. Truly amazing. > [@](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, they’re overall reputation is tainted, but it all comes down to the individual person I’m dealing with. I guess by definition, that is a prejudice, but my attitude can easily be changed by someone who proves my initial conviction wrong. “They’re” is a contraction of “they are” and “their” is the possessive of “they.” Yes, that is the definition of prejudice. Maybe if you showed the MP some respect, the MP would return the favor. After all, “what’s good for the MP is good for the driver.” (Yep, repetition/reinforcement in case you didn’t notice.) > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _originally posted by Syehoc_ > > I think they’re trained to think they’re better than the general military population. > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Do you have direct knowledge of this from their or is this merely another WAG? > > Did I not say “I think?” Anyway, I don’t believe it’s direct. I can’t picture an instructor saying, “At 1300 you’ll receive a block of training on how to be a prick who thinks your shit smells better than everyone else’s.” I can, though, **imagine** (in bold so that you don’t ask me if I witnessed this first hand, which you’ll probably do anyway) their entire AIT filled with phrases like “it’s up to **you** ” and “ **you** have the final say.” It’s kind of bad form to snip the words out of the quote without indicating it. Yes, you said you think. But since you’re not basing that on any direct knowledge, then it’s naught but opinion. Also, your opinion, as you just admitted, is based on your imagination and not a bit of actual evidence. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > One of my best high school friends has grown up to be an MP, he’s an asshole, but still one of my best friends. > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Still doesn’t constitute all Military Police. He’s your friend and you see what you evidently consider a serious character and professional fault in a Soldier? Done anything to dissuade him of that or do you not care about your friends either? > > Pete and Repeat were sitting on a log. This has a point? > [@](#): > > I did not attempt to dissuade my friend of being an asshole. So you’re saying it’s okay for your pals to be assholes but it’s not okay for the MP to be an asshole? > [@](#): > > Therefore I don’t care about any of my friends. :rolleyes: Well, evidently you don’t care if the one particular friend is an asshole. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > ## _Originally posted by Syehoc_ Soon to be a quote: If they jumped off of a building, would you? > > > > Probably > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Again, your speculation is pathetically incorrect. > > > > Someone jumping off a building is endangering himself. My moral and legal obligation, if I were present on the rooftop and within reach, would be to stop that person from doing so - not merely watching him leap to his death or serious harm. Your action, along with those others present in the Barracks is not unlike someone standing by and watching the jumper. You had both the means and the opportunity to carry out your duty and by your own admission, you failed to do so. You also compound that error by taking refuge in the group of those who were derelict. That’s just sad. > > ``` > As your ability to pick up on a figurative statement is pathetic. **no one is jumping off a building!** I think I've addressed the rest of this paragraph a couple of times before. > > ``` Then your thinking is, yet again, off the mark. You used the figurative statement to make a point & I indicated that it was an invalid point by making the proper comparison with a figurative statement. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > You accused the SDO of sleeping and used that false accusation (you now admit it’s false) to justify your dereliction. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a lie. > > Horse piss. I’ll repeat myself yet again. I did not accuse nor believe that the SDO was sleeping. That was a joke, an attempt at making someone chuckle. Get over it. Bullshit. You made the statement and are now waffling after being called on it being out and out bullshit. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > Then you should’ve made the assumption that he was awake and carried out your obligation. > > Already addressed As were your dereliction and your pathetic excuse (the bit about waking up the SDO). > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > A pointless post. Everyone in the army is basically a soldier. > > > [@](#): > > > > _originally posted by Monty_ > > Not pointless as you evidently understand that you, as part of everyone in the Army, are also a Soldier. > > It **is** pointless, as I have always understood that I was a soldier. This is not something that you have suddenly brought to my attention. But evidently it is something suddenly brought to your attention when, as a Soldier, you are expected to act as a Soldier. Not only that, but the MP, being a Soldier, is also expected to act as a Soldier and perform his duty: that duty as described in the OP, whether you like it or not, was to interact with you regarding your disregard of a traffic regulation, to wit: rolling through a posted stop. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _originally posted by Syehoc_ > > My apologize for calling you a burnout.\*\* > > one day…I will learn to construct simple sentences. I hope so. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > So you understand that it was a remark based on your prejudice? > > No, I understand that I felt bad about calling you a burnout, try not to read too much into things. The rest of the remarks made in conjuction with the burnout comment prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was based on prejudice. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Syehoc_ > > At the time it seemed like a good way to come back at someone who abruptly called me a cry baby. > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > It wasn’t a good way as I did not abruptly call you that. Here’s what I said: > > IMHO: You’re catching grief in this thread because you’re comming across as a cry-baby > > ``` > Actually, that's not the little remark I was referring to. "Syehoc is a fucking cry baby so far, ergo he's a piss poor Soldier." Nah, not at all abrupt. :rolleyes: > > ``` Not abrupt at all since you were evidently aware of the preceding (that means “before”) remark. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Monty_ > > > > 1. I certainly hope you availed yourself of the MGIB. > > 2. Why not get the most you can out of the Army during your time in? Drop some of your prejudices and become a good NCO in the time left. > > 1. Of course Good! > [@](#): > > 1. Anything’s possible, considering I drop **some** of my prejudice **s** Actually, that word, in the sense I used it there, can be either “prejudice” as in “sum total of hatred” or “prejudices” as in “all of the individual things you hate.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/74 "2001-05-10T21:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by absoul \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Manservant Hecubus \* > > You wrote the course, assholio. > > I’ll take that as a complement. \*\* In that you make perfect and complete the definition of an asshole, that’s a good idea. So, today, we’ve learned that one of the two is true: 1. absoul doesn’t spell well. 2. absoul isn’t as s-m-r-t as he thinks he is. Personally, I think #1 complements #2. And, I’m done with my compliments. ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827/75 "2001-05-11T05:05:55Z")
**Manservant Hecubus-** Well you obviously understood its meaning and may have even guessed it was a play on words. Bravo! Now go take your medication before you burst that pulsating vein in your neck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mps-are-assholes/63827.md?page=3)