# Mr. Burns Wouldn't Put Up With Shit Like This **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 19, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511 "2005-05-19T00:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/21 "2005-05-19T04:13:20Z")
Yes! Nuke power is a witch! Burn the witch! ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/22 "2005-05-19T04:28:21Z")
This thread rules. But like they say, if you love something, set it free. If it doesn’t return, it was never meant to be. Off to MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/23 "2005-05-19T04:53:15Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Beats me. I’ll be right back, I’m going to go lay outside in the warm sun and feel the wind on my face. Umm, do you know how much power is available through solar insolation? The absolute maximum at the Earth’s surface is just under 1 kW/m[sup]2[/sup]. Did you also know that silicon solar cells cannot return as much energy as it takes to manufacture them? (May be out of date, about 10 year old data). They degrade before the payoff point. Solar, wind, tide, and other alternative energy sources are of generally too low an energy density to be practical. They can serve as a useful adjunct to conventional power generation to slow the rate of depletion, but are not suitable as a replacement. Of all _currently_ available technologies, nuclear is the front runner in terms of economy, efficiency and safety. As far as the nuclear waste goes, back when there was a huge debate over what hole in the ground would be chosen for long term storage, I read an interview with a scientist (wish I remembered who) that said that if we took all of the radioactive wastes currently on hand plus all that was projected to be produced for the next century and mixed it evenly onto the oceans, there would not be a detectable rise in the ocean’s natural background radiation. But since it wasn’t a “politically viable” solution, it wasn’t ever given consideration. And what to do when the oil runs out (if it ever does), space appears to hold the answers. Orbiting solar facilities and microwave transmission is a pretty solid alternative. Or if you don’t like the thought of microwaves being beamed down, you can build a beanstalk (a geostationary cable from Earth’s surface to low Earth orbit) and pipe it through copper wires. Plus, you can probably draw power directly from the beanstalk because of it’s interactions with the Earth’s magnetic field and ionosphere. For that matter, what ever happened to Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics? An MHD plant burns fuel to power a conventional gas turbine, then also draws power directly from the ionized exhaust. This increases the efficiency of a power plant dramatically, but I haven’t heard anything about it since the mid-seventies. So while you’re outside getting a tan and flying a kite in your solar and wind powered world, remember that you’re going to have to give up your car, television, computer, microwave oven, cd/dvd player, electric lights and air conditioner, because not only will you not have enough energy to operate them, we won’t have enough to manufacture them either. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/24 "2005-05-19T05:04:03Z")
> [@Rhubarb](#): > > For that matter, what ever happened to Magneto-Hydro-Dynamics? [I think he was defeated 😃](http://www.mckellen.com/images/misc/magneto.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/25 "2005-05-19T05:21:46Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I bet they looked a lot like Jacko, Whacko and Dot, climbing into the Warner Brothers water tower. > OK, oil is bad. Coal is bad. Nuclear power is bad. If we go back to plain old wood is bad. Whale oil is still bad. They’re against everything. What can we use??? I got it, let’s burn Green Peacers! :eek: \ _Y_ako, Whacko & Dot.\ Although I have no problem seeing Michael Jackson trying to climb into the Warner Bros. water tower. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/26 "2005-05-19T07:31:13Z")
> [@Rhubarb](#): > > Solar, wind, tide, and other alternative energy sources are of generally too low an energy density to be practical. Poppycock. What do you think we could do with the midwest? All that empty space, with katabatic winds tearing across it, would produce more power than the US could ever use. Farmers can make more money with windfarms in their fields than they can growing food. We’ve already got so much of that, we pay them _not_ to grow it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/27 "2005-05-19T10:31:16Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > \ _Y_ako, Whacko & Dot.\ Although I have no problem seeing Michael Jackson trying to climb into the Warner Bros. water tower. Nitpicking your nitpick: Yakko, Wakko, and Dot. The Warner brothers, and the Warner sister. ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/28 "2005-05-19T10:34:47Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Poppycock. What do you think we could do with the midwest? All that empty space, with katabatic winds tearing across it, would produce more power than the US could ever use. Farmers can make more money with windfarms in their fields than they can growing food. We’ve already got so much of that, we pay them _not_ to grow it. The costs of using wind-energy are incredible. They need a **lot** of maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/29 "2005-05-19T14:13:06Z")
> [@Scoundrel Swanswater](#): > > The costs of using wind-energy are incredible. > They need a **lot** of maintenance. Can we afford _not_ to use it? ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/30 "2005-05-19T14:54:36Z")
Of course, we can just go nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/31 "2005-05-19T15:39:56Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Poppycock. What do you think we could do with the midwest? All that empty space, with katabatic winds tearing across it, would produce more power than the US could ever use. Farmers can make more money with windfarms in their fields than they can growing food. We’ve already got so much of that, we pay them _not_ to grow it. There are no katabatic winds dominating the midwest…being that we don’t have any mountains and all… The areas which have this effect, eastern California/Nevada and the foothills of the Great Plains (western Nebraska, Kansas and the Dakotas) could make use of them in isolated situations, but as has been stated the cost-benefit of the systems are among the worst options we have. Unfortunately this is mainly going to be a supllementary solution, equivalent to the way we use hydro-electric power now. Also, the factor which isn’t taken into consideration is the effect on the environment of essentially damming the wind. Its not really clear how this might effect the flow of weather if done on the scale you’re proposing. ---
**Author:** ![Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try_As_I_Might)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/32 "2005-05-19T16:10:28Z")
> [@](#): > > What do you think we could do with the midwest? All that empty space… Er. Sorry–got to disagree. All that “empty space” is owned typically by co-op farmers or ranchers, corporate farms or ranches, or single family business people. Further, if wind farms were such a simple economic solution, farmers and ranchers in the midwest would be doing it by now instead of trying to fight the economies of scale created by corporate farming. (not too mention, corporations would jump on that as well) Don’t get me wrong, I would love to be able to rely on wind as a viable alternative energy, but we need to find a way to make it feasible. I’m am sure the farmers and ranchers who scrape by every year have thought about this. One issue springs to mind, even if wind farms are feasiable in the midwest, who is going to lay the infrastructure for a network of wind farms across the midwest? who bears the cost? Fed, state, or business? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/33 "2005-05-19T19:17:29Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > [Greenpeace scales Dutch reactor.](http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=3146717)Okay, guys, what’re we gonna do for electricity when the oil runs out? [Mr. Burns] Oh so sorry! Me no speak-ee Chin-eee! [/Mr. Burns] > [@Try As I Might...](#): > > Er. Sorry–got to disagree. All that “empty space” is owned typically by co-op farmers or ranchers, corporate farms or ranches, or single family business people. Further, if wind farms were such a simple economic solution, farmers and ranchers in the midwest would be doing it by now instead of trying to fight the economies of scale created by corporate farming. (not too mention, corporations would jump on that as well) > > Don’t get me wrong, I would love to be able to rely on wind as a viable alternative energy, but we need to find a way to make it feasible. I’m am sure the farmers and ranchers who scrape by every year have thought about this. > > One issue springs to mind, even if wind farms are feasiable in the midwest, who is going to lay the infrastructure for a network of wind farms across the midwest? who bears the cost? Fed, state, or business? Actually this is something I know a little bit about. I worked for a energy company client for about six months. Typically, a private power company like the one I worked for will lease land from farmers (Minnesota is popular). They will have a number of wind turbines (anywhere from 1 to over a hundred) built and maintained after entering into a power purchase agreement with a utility company (the guys who distribute the power to your house). It’s a pretty profitable business. There are some limitations however. You can’t just plop turbines anywhere. For one, they are really freakin big. It’s basically like 3 jumbo-jet wings spinning on a 200 foot pole. Not everyone wants to see them on their horizon. More importantly, to be cost effective, they need to be placed where the prevailing winds are fairly predictable on constant. This will give you an idea of the scale. [http://www.afm.dtu.dk/wind/turbines/remove\_2.JPG](http://www.afm.dtu.dk/wind/turbines/remove_2.JPG) [http://www.norfolkskyview.flyer.co.uk/wind\_turbine.jpg](http://www.norfolkskyview.flyer.co.uk/wind_turbine.jpg)) Oh yeah, and sometimes they get hit by lightning and blow up. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/34 "2005-05-19T19:23:12Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Oh yeah, and sometimes they get hit by lightning and blow up. That I would _love_ to see! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/35 "2005-05-19T19:24:51Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Also, the factor which isn’t taken into consideration is the effect on the environment of essentially damming the wind. Its not really clear how this might effect the flow of weather if done on the scale you’re proposing. Are you joking? Smither’s! Use the Amnesia Ray! ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/36 "2005-05-19T19:25:15Z")
Gu-uys! We’re supposed to be cracking wise-arse remarks and being snarky and silly and generally fun in this thread, _not_ engaging in a meaningful, thoughtful debate on alternate energy sources! Sheeesh! ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/37 "2005-05-19T19:32:47Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > There are no katabatic winds dominating the midwest…being that we don’t have any mountains and all… My bad. I tend to refer to all sparsley inhabited areas between Nev. and Mass. as “the midwest”. > [@Try As I Might](#): > > Further, if wind farms were such a simple economic solution, farmers and ranchers in the midwest would be doing it by now [They can](http://www.cropchoice.com/leadstryd9be.html?recid=2269) [They are](http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/agNews_050325crWIND.xml) ---
**Author:** ![Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try_As_I_Might)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/38 "2005-05-19T20:31:10Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > [They can](http://www.cropchoice.com/leadstryd9be.html?recid=2269) > > [They are](http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/agNews_050325crWIND.xml) Don’t get me wrong, I think wind farms are a great idea and I fully endorse the movement as an alternitve energy source. I hope wind power does take off. I hope I’m not making a very controversial statement by saying that wind farms have not developed in the midwest as they have on the pacific coast (OR and CA). I hope we can agree that there economic issues that need to be resolved before wind farms truly take hold in the midwest. If not, that is an issue for another thread. Kythereia, point well taken. I will be back when my sense of humor returns from its vacation 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/39 "2005-05-19T20:35:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Smither’s! Use the Amnesia Ray! Do you mean the revolver? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511/40 "2005-05-19T20:46:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Are you joking? > > Smither’s! Use the Amnesia Ray! Would that be a 1920’s style Amnesia Ray? I should think Mr. Burns can afford newer kit than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-burns-wouldnt-put-up-with-shit-like-this/304511.md?page=3)