# Mr Gore's Nobel: Like the wife-beater winning for Shelters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456 "2007-10-12T11:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/241 "2007-10-15T22:44:41Z")
Well for one thing, cars leave the market much more rapidly than houses, and respond to market demand much faster. But, you probably say, if no one buys the new SUV, eventually they stop making it. However, the used SUV is going to continue to exist until it’s junked. Likewise, that old house is going to exist for at least 100 years, and possibly much longer. Why tear it down and build a new house when you don’t need to? It’s a sunk cost in resources. You can retrofit it to use less energy than it did before and there’s the energy it would take to construct a new house to consider as well. What Gore did is the equivalent of taking an old SUV and putting a biodiesel engine in it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/242 "2007-10-15T22:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] Well for one thing, cars leave the market much more rapidly than houses, and respond to market demand much faster. [/quote] At the same time, houses stay with us for a long time. There are developers out there building big houses and small houses. They make their decisions based on the market. Because lots of people want big houses, developers are throwing up McMansions all over the place. It’s very common for people to have houses with rooms that they hardly ever use. And these houses will be with us for a long long time. The decision of what kind of house or car to buy affects the market, which affects what kind of houses or cars that builders decide to build. So the “but it already exists” argument fails in either case. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/243 "2007-10-15T23:04:02Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] …It’s like catching your husband naked in bed with his secretary. Maybe there’s a legitimate explanation, but the burden’s on him to put it forward. [/QUOTE] “Who you going to believe? Me, or your damn lying eyes!” ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/244 "2007-10-15T23:06:14Z")
I simply don’t agree. Gore isn’t responsible for decisions that other people make in regards to their houses or cars. What he can do is show the way for people to reduce the amount of energy that existing infrastructure uses. He didn’t buy the house and then just leave it as it - he changed it to reduce its impact. That the house stays with us for a long time is precisely the point. No one sane was going to tear it down just to build another more eco-friendly house (surely you see the contradiction there). ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/245 "2007-10-15T23:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] I simply don’t agree. Gore isn’t responsible for decisions that other people make in regards to their houses or cars. What he can do is show the way for people to reduce the amount of energy that existing infrastructure uses. He didn’t buy the house and then just leave it as it - he changed it to reduce its impact. That the house stays with us for a long time is precisely the point. No one sane was going to tear it down just to build another more eco-friendly house (surely you see the contradiction there). [/QUOTE] Do you agree that fluctuations in what sort of houses are in demand today are more likely to have a long lasting impact on what sort of houses are in existence in 50 years? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/246 "2007-10-16T00:56:41Z")
Not nearly as much as what new houses are built. If I buy that used SUV, the new car market doesn’t know what car I purchased. It sees the car that the guy who sold me the SUV buys. Likewise with buying an old house and the home builders market. In any case, this is focusing on the wrong thing. Gore’s message is not just “consume less”. It’s “consume less that comes from AGW-contributing resources”. If you have a 8000 sq ft house and consume 10 times the energy as the average household, **but** it comes from energy sources that don’t contribute to AGW, then there’s no issue. In fact, if you’re consuming lots of green energy, it increases the demand to produce that green energy, making it cheaper in the long run for others to purchase it. If I do buy that used SUV and convert it to run on a green source, then it’s cheaper for the next guy to do the same. Now that doesn’t mean you should be purposefully wasteful, but it’s not as simple as saying “consume energy = hypocritical green”. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/247 "2007-10-16T01:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] Not nearly as much as what new houses are built. If I buy that used SUV, the new car market doesn’t know what car I purchased. [/quote] Of course it does. If you buy a used SUV, it pushes up the residual value of the car and makes it cheaper for people to get new SUV’s. Let me ask you this: If half the McMansions in the country went up for sale tomorrow so that the owners could move to smaller houses, do you think that builders would modify the sizes of the houses they are building? > [@](#): > > In any case, this is focusing on the wrong thing. Gore’s message is not just “consume less”. It’s “consume less that comes from AGW-contributing resources”. If you have a 8000 sq ft house and consume 10 times the energy as the average household, **but** it comes from energy sources that don’t contribute to AGW, then there’s no issue. Please explain how the reported $1000 per month in natural gas and God Only Knows amount of jet fuel used by Gore comes from energy sources that don’t (in your opinion) contribute to AGW. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/248 "2007-10-16T01:21:56Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Of course it does. If you buy a used SUV, it pushes up the residual value of the car and makes it cheaper for people to get new SUV’s. Let me ask you this: If half the McMansions in the country went up for sale tomorrow so that the owners could move to smaller houses, do you think that builders would modify the sizes of the houses they are building? Please explain how the reported $1000 per month in natural gas and God Only Knows amount of jet fuel used by Gore comes from energy sources that don’t (in your opinion) contribute to AGW. [/QUOTE] You can’t really count the jet fuel against him. He can’t get his message out from his house. He has to give the slideshow. You can spend a dollar to save a billion, it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/249 "2007-10-16T01:29:36Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Let me ask you this: If half the McMansions in the country went up for sale tomorrow so that the owners could move to smaller houses, do you think that builders would modify the sizes of the houses they are building? [/quote] Not if they’re all bought. > [@](#): > > Please explain how the reported $1000 per month in natural gas and God Only Knows amount of jet fuel used by Gore comes from energy sources that don’t (in your opinion) contribute to AGW. That’s where offsets come in. Now I get that you don’t believe this works. But Gore does, and to call him a hypocrite you would have to reveal that he doesn’t and he’s acting against his beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/250 "2007-10-16T01:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] You can’t really count the jet fuel against him. He can’t get his message out from his house. He has to give the slideshow. You can spend a dollar to save a billion, it’s okay. [/QUOTE] I disagree. First of all, it would be a lot more efficient to fly using regular air service – even if he brings a couple security guys and flunkies with him. Besides, I think that it would make a more powerful statement if on some of his speaking engagements, he appeared by satellite link. And charged $5000 instead of $100,000. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/251 "2007-10-16T01:45:43Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I disagree. First of all, it would be a lot more efficient to fly using regular air service – even if he brings a couple security guys and flunkies with him. [/QUOTE] And much of the time, he does. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/252 "2007-10-16T01:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Of course it does. If you buy a used SUV, it pushes up the residual value of the car and makes it cheaper for people to get new SUV’s. Let me ask you this: If half the McMansions in the country went up for sale tomorrow so that the owners could move to smaller houses, do you think that builders would modify the sizes of the houses they are building? Please explain how the reported $1000 per month in natural gas and God Only Knows amount of jet fuel used by Gore comes from energy sources that don’t (in your opinion) contribute to AGW. [/QUOTE] You are very good at spreading misinformation. Your cite about the office is from a report **[Published: June 14, 2001](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E0D61F3EF937A25755C0A9679C8B63)**, you know before that magical 2002 date you were harping on. Your cite that actually mentions the $1000 per month gas bill (which you failed to quote anywhere in this thread, you only linked to it.) is from The Tennessee Center for Policy Research which is of course a right wing think tank and not a news service. Their information is unsupported. > [@](#): > > TIME stated that the Tennessee Center for Policy Research claimed to have gotten “its figures from Nashville Electric Service. But company spokeswoman Laurie Parker said the utility never got a request from the policy center and never gave it any information.” In other words, they made an unsubstantiated attack and you repeated it. I really with you would stop spreading misinformation on this board. Who do you actually work for? Jim ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/253 "2007-10-16T01:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] Not if they’re all bought. [/quote] “If” being the key word. Believe it or not, extra supply doesn’t always create its own demand. > [@](#): > > That’s where offsets come in. Now I get that you don’t believe this works. But Gore does, and to call him a hypocrite you would have to reveal that he doesn’t and he’s acting against his beliefs. No, you would have to show that he is acting against the principles that he urged on other people. For example, if he has simply urged the public to use less energy, then he’s a hypocrite. And even if he’s not a hypocrite, he’s still setting a bad example. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/254 "2007-10-16T02:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] You are very good at spreading misinformation. Your cite about the office is from a report **[Published: June 14, 2001](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E0D61F3EF937A25755C0A9679C8B63)**, you know before that magical 2002 date you were harping on. [/quote] So are you claiming that the Gores no longer have an office in Nashville? > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gore+office+nashville)** Funny that the phone number still works, hey? > [@](#): > > Your cite that actually mentions the $1000 per month gas bill (which you failed to quote anywhere in this thread, you only linked to it.) is from The Tennessee Center for Policy Research which is of course a right wing think tank and not a news service. I believe I referred to it as a “press release (attacking Al Gore)” So it’s not like I was presenting it as a neutral source. > [@](#): > > Their information is unsupported. Cite? > [@](#): > > I really with you would stop spreading misinformation on this board. So let’s see . . . I’m spreading misinformation by linking to a press release attacking Al Gore, and explicitly stating that it’s a press release attacking Al Gore? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/255 "2007-10-16T02:34:36Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] That’s where offsets come in. Now I get that you don’t believe this works. But Gore does, and to call him a hypocrite you would have to reveal that he doesn’t and he’s acting against his beliefs. [/QUOTE] According to this article – [http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/16/hannity-gore/](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/16/hannity-gore/) Gore’s view was the following: > [@](#): > > Gore lives a strict carbon-neutral lifestyle both in his work and private life. That means he tries to reduce his emissions as much as possible, and then purchases carbon offsets for the remaining emissions. It appears that this was a few days before the story broke about Gore’s house. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/256 "2007-10-16T02:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] So are you claiming that the Gores no longer have an office in Nashville? [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gore+office+nashville)? [/QUOTE] No, I am claiming your article precedes them moving into the home. He did not add the office after he bought the home. > [@](#): > > Funny that the phone number still works, hey?? So, he has retained the office he set up before he moved into the home. Now produce some support for how often he drives there in the last 5 years. (We can both play this silly game) > [@](#): > > I believe I referred to it as a “press release (attacking Al Gore)” So it’s not like I was presenting it as a neutral source.? Please see below … #1 > [@](#): > > Cite?? Yes, TIME, you know the national News Magazine. The article is Al Gore Draws Flak On Utility Bill. TIME from (2007-02-28). > [@](#): > > So let’s see . . . I’m spreading misinformation by linking to a press release attacking Al Gore, and explicitly stating that it’s a press release attacking Al Gore? #1: Funny, you mentioned the $1000 per month at least two more times, without ever quoting it and you never included a disclaimer again. So yes, you are spreading misinformation. You are just very skilled at it like the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. Jim {By the way, I hate parsing posts. } ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/257 "2007-10-16T02:40:21Z")
[Here are some press releases from Al Gore.](http://current.com/people/algore) He doesn’t say anything about beating his wife. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/258 "2007-10-16T02:45:52Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] No, I am claiming your article precedes them moving into the home. He did not add the office after he bought the home. [/quote] So what? Did I ever claim that he did? > [@](#): > > So, he has retained the office he set up before he moved into the home. Now produce some support for how often he drives there in the last 5 years. Why should I? If somebody wants to claim that he works from home, it’s up to them to offer evidence. > [@](#): > > Yes, TIME, you know the national News Magazine. > The article is Al Gore Draws Flak On Utility Bill. TIME from (2007-02-28). Can you please quote the article in pertinent part? Thank you. > [@](#): > > #1: Funny, you mentioned the $1000 per month at least two more times, without ever quoting it and you never included a disclaimer again. I believe I said something like “according to the source I mentioned earlier” > [@](#): > > So, how about my other question, who do you actually work for? I work for nobody but myself. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/259 "2007-10-16T02:49:18Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Can you please quote the article in pertinent part? Thank you. [/QUOTE] Check your local library. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456/260 "2007-10-16T03:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Check your local library. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but it’s not my responsibility to verify the claims you are making. However, I did do something known as a “google search” and found the following article: [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254908,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,254908,00.html) > [@](#): > > The report also said that the Gores’ natural gas bills for his mansion and guest house averaged $1,080 per month last year. And here’s the kicker: > [@](#): > > Kalee Kreider, Gore’s spokeswoman, **doesn’t dispute the numbers the report is based on** but says the numbers need a little context. My bolding. Interesting that Gore’s own spokeswoman apparently didn’t deny this “misinformation” that’s supposedly “unsupported.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-gores-nobel-like-the-wife-beater-winning-for-shelters/422456.md?page=14)