# Mr. Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167 "2009-01-27T01:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/1 "2009-01-27T01:41:41Z")
Chip Reid, chief white house correspondent for cbs, said “Mr. Obama” four or five times tonight on the news. Is that proper? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/2 "2009-01-27T01:46:36Z")
They called the previous guy Mr. Bush, so why not? It’s not like he has to be constantly referred to as Mr. President or President Obama, the title isn’t a necessary prefix ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/3 "2009-01-27T01:46:45Z")
“Mr. President” is the form of address, you call him “President Obama”, but I don’t see how it could be _incorrect_ to call a citizen of this country “Mr. Obama”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/4 "2009-01-27T01:50:31Z")
I believe the practice is to refer to the President as ‘President [name]’ the first time he\* is mentioned in a report, and as ‘Mr. [name]’ in subsequent mentions. \*So far. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/5 "2009-01-27T02:06:17Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > They called the previous guy Mr. Bush, so why not? It’s not like he has to be constantly referred to as Mr. President or President Obama, the title isn’t a necessary prefix Actually, I never noticed what they called the ex-president. I think I only noticed tonight because it seemed like Reid said it so often. Plus, I pay more attention to Obama than I did to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/6 "2009-01-27T02:16:15Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Actually, I never noticed what they called the ex-president. I think I only noticed tonight because it seemed like Reid said it so often. Plus, I pay more attention to Obama than I did to Bush. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/7 "2009-01-27T02:22:50Z")
Both the _NYT_ and the _Washington Post_ style is to refer to the President as “Mr. Lastname” on second reference and thereafter, with an occasional “the President” sprinkled in for variety. They’re not now dissing President Obama, if that’s what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/8 "2009-01-27T02:27:51Z")
The AP Styleguide says about presidents that on second reference only the last name should be used, but I’m uncertain if that’s in contrast to it’s prior clarification on when to use the first and last names or not. Also according to the AP, courtesy titles (Mr., Miss, etc) should be used in direct quotations, when it is neccesary to distinguish between two people who use the same last name, or when a woman specifically requests it. They are mum on any further specifics about the President. I do know, though I don’t have a cite for it, that the _New York Times_ uses President \_\_\_\_\_ on first reference in an article, and any subsequent reference is Mr. \_\_\_\_. ([Two](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0D7133BF937A25757C0A9659C8B63) [examples](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/us/politics/22web-baker.html?scp=6&sq=george%20bush&st=cse)) I believe that the same format is used for former presidents, i.e., “President Clinton did the dishes, then Mr. Clinton took his pet gopher for a walk.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/9 "2009-01-27T02:29:47Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > “Mr. President” is the form of address, you call him “President Obama”, but I don’t see how it could be incorrect to call a citizen of this country “Mr. Obama”. It is not (unless the citizen happens to be female, of course ;)). Yes, “Mr. Obama” is a correct way to refer to the President. “President Obama” is usually used for the first reference in a given story or article, after which the writer or speaker may switch to “Mr. Obama” to avoid repeating the more unwieldy title every time. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/10 "2009-01-27T02:31:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Both the _NYT_ and the _Washington Post_ style is to refer to the President as “Mr. Lastname” on second reference and thereafter, with an occasional “the President” sprinkled in for variety. They’re not now dissing President Obama, if that’s what you mean. No, my question was simply about the protocol. Reporters of Reid’s stature rarely disrespect anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/11 "2009-01-27T02:37:11Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > I believe that the same format is used for former presidents, i.e., “President Clinton did the dishes, then Mr. Clinton took his pet gopher for a walk.” If that’s the format the _Times_ uses (and I don’t think it is, but I don’t have a cite), then they are wrong and Miss Manners is gonna [dope-slap them](http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/missmanners/story/554501.html): > [@](#): > > [W]hen the first president left office, he made a concession to the American taste for simplicity by decreeing that he would henceforth no longer carry the title of president, not even as a mere courtesy. […] > > There could only be one president of the United States at a time, he reasoned, as our newest president also observed during the transition period. But there could be more than one American general, so George Washington let it be known that he would revert to his previously held title and should be addressed as General Washington. […] > > The former president is correctly addressed as Gov. Bush. His wife, who was THE Mrs. Bush when he was president, reverts to being Mrs. George W. Bush, as her mother-in-law became again Mrs. George H. W. Bush after her husband’s administration. Likewise, Mr. Clinton (or Governor Clinton) is not “President Clinton” anymore, and if he still wants people to refer to him that way then he needs to learn to let go. And if the _New York Times_ or anybody else still wants to refer to him that way, then _they_ need to learn to let go. He may also be identified as “former President Bill Clinton” when that’s relevant in referring to him, but it’s more of a descriptor than an honorific. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/12 "2009-01-27T02:58:46Z")
Not that I practice what she preaches. But I am delighted to see that our gentle **Kimstu** would never use the awkward term “bitch-slap”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/13 "2009-01-27T03:07:29Z")
This is an interesting tidbit: when Colin Powell was Secretary of State, the NY Times would refer to him as “Secretary of State Colin Powell” in the first reference, and thereafter as “General Powell.” Somewhere along the line, the Times changed their policy and started referring to him as “Mr. Powell.” [2001 story,](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/28/weekinreview/28PERL.html?ex=1233118800&en=d93c145ca00f18f7&ei=5070) [2008 story.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/us/politics/20campaign.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=colin%20powell&st=cse) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/14 "2009-01-27T03:50:26Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > But I am delighted to see that our gentle Kimstu would never use the awkward term “bitch-slap”. Perish the thought. Plus, the dope slap (brought to you by the guys at _Car Talk_) is actually a [different thing](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DopeSlap?from=Main.TheDopeSlap): > [@](#): > > The Dope Slap is a lighthearted slap to the back of the skull that is intended as a disciplinary move by one character when another character does, says, or even thinks something that is uniformly stupid. […] > > Not to be confused with a Pimp/Bitch slap, which is a hard, front-handed slap directly applied to the cheeks in order to assert one’s Authoritah. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/15 "2009-01-27T04:04:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If that’s the format the _Times_ uses (and I don’t think it is, but I don’t have a cite), then they are wrong and Miss Manners is gonna [dope-slap them](http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/missmanners/story/554501.html): > > Likewise, Mr. Clinton (or Governor Clinton) is not “President Clinton” anymore, and if he still wants people to refer to him that way then he needs to learn to let go. And if the _New York Times_ or anybody else still wants to refer to him that way, then _they_ need to learn to let go. > > He may also be identified as “former President Bill Clinton” when that’s relevant in referring to him, but it’s more of a descriptor than an honorific. The reality is that ex-Presidents are still referred to as “President” as a matter of course, not only by the Press, but also by elected officials, including sitting Presidents. Miss Manners can protest it all she wants, but the practice is what it is, and it’s not going to change. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/16 "2009-01-27T04:38:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The reality is that ex-Presidents are still referred to as “President” as a matter of course, not only by the Press, but also by elected officials, including sitting Presidents. Miss Manners can protest it all she wants, but the practice is what it is, and it’s not going to change. Darn. You slipped in ahead of me. The notion that former presidents are not to be called President is total crap. It has about the same authority and lineage as the notion that you can’t split infinitives or end a sentence with a preposition. You see it only as a vestige of some distant era of Etiquette that may still exist when deciding seating protocol at a State dinner but nowhere else in our society. I’m old enough to remember when Judith Martin wrote a humor column. As far as I’m concerned, her advice as Miss Manners is still humor and not to be taken seriously. It’s certainly almost never right. Mangeorge, calling the President Mr. X has been the norm for your entire life, since I can trace it easily in newspapers back as far as McKinley. In fact, I found articles on him in which the first as well as subsequent references were to Mr. McKinley, although the headline did refer to the President. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/17 "2009-01-27T05:07:23Z")
I support referring to former Presidents just as “Mr. Lastname.” Harry Truman said when he left the White House that he looked forward to going back to being plain ol’ “Mr. Truman.” Lifetime honorifics for retired politicians (other than the formal prefix “The Honorable” in correspondence, which I don’t mind) creates the appearance of a quasi-aristocracy and is counter to the republican (little “r”) simplicity the Framers had in mind, IMHO. I’m also glad the _Times_ changed its policy on then-SecState Colin Powell. To be referring to the country’s top diplomat as “General” sends all the wrong signals to the juntas and dictatorships of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/18 "2009-01-27T06:53:10Z")
It’s correct to say Mr Obama or President Obama, or Mr President. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/19 "2009-01-27T08:09:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I support referring to former Presidents just as “Mr. Lastname.” If we’re going this route, I support calling current Presidents “Mr. Lastname”\* because President is a job description, not a feudal title: An election doesn’t change _your_ social status, it merely places you in an _office_ that is accorded respect by others based on established traditions. The respect is part of the office, just like the White House and the really snazzy limos, and is ultimately being accorded to the people of the United States of America, who chose that President to represent them and their interests on an international stage. Former presidents will be called “President Lastname” because the English language is a _language_, not a board game, and it abides by no fixed rules. \*(Obviously selected from “Mr./Mrs./Ms.” according to the gender and preference of the person in the office.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167/20 "2009-01-27T11:22:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m old enough to remember when Judith Martin wrote a humor column. As far as I’m concerned, her advice as Miss Manners is still humor and not to be taken seriously. It’s certainly almost never right. Um… cite? I’m pretty old myself. I recall Judith Martin had a theatre and film review column, and before that was a White House reporter; I don’t recall her ever doing a regular humor column. But I may well have missed it… educate me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-obama/483167.md?page=2)