# Mr. Spock can go to Hell **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2021, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364 "2021-08-23T12:08:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/41 "2021-08-23T20:38:49Z")
"Genesis 5:4 {The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters.} reveals that Adam and Eve “had sons and daughters” (besides Cain, Abel, and Seth). > **[Who Was Cain’s Wife?](https://answersingenesis.org/bible-characters/cain/who-was-cains-wife/)** > > No woman in Scripture has caused as much confusion as Cain’s wife. If Adam and Eve were the first people, and Cain their first child, whom did he marry? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/42 "2021-08-23T20:39:37Z")
We’re only told of Cain/Able - we’re not told of any other children, clearly there were - enough of them, in fact, to create ‘Nod’. /biblewank ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/43 "2021-08-23T20:42:10Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > God created Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve created Cain and Able, Cain slew Able. In theory there was 1 person left at that point. Then Cain goes to Nod gets married and has a kid. Genesis states that Adam and Eve had another son after Abel and Cain, named Seth, as well as “other sons and daughters.” (Genesis 5:4: “After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.”) Also, I’m now seeing, [in the Wikipedia entry for Adam and Eve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve#Offspring), that there’s an ancient Jewish text, the [Book of Jubilees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Jubilees), which isn’t generally seen as canonical by most Jews or Christians, but which says that Cain’s wife was his sister Awan. Plus, in Genesis, a lot of the early personalities were said to have lived for many hundreds of years, so if one already believes that, one can also believe that those people had lots and lots of offspring. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/44 "2021-08-23T20:42:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > We’re only told of Cain/Able - we’re not told of any other children, We’re also told of a 3rd son Seth. But the fundamentalist answer is basically incest with an unnamed sister. That’s what I was more or less told by biblical literalists growing up though oddly enough, people weren’t so eager to delve into those implications. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/45 "2021-08-23T22:24:13Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > There are clearly people on Earth who are not decended from Adam and Eve like the people of Nod where Cane gets his wife from. Not according to Ken Ham: see @crowmanyclouds’s link. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/46 "2021-08-23T22:32:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But the fundamentalist answer is basically incest with an unnamed sister. That’s what I was more or less told by biblical literalists growing up though oddly enough, people weren’t so eager to delve into those implications. In small populations where do you think mates would come from? Even from the evolutionary model, close relatives were necessary until a sufficient population existed. The “fundamentalist” understanding is that with genes only one generation removed from perfect, the issue we would see today would not have been as big a problem. It has nothing to do with not being “eager to delve into those implications.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/47 "2021-08-23T22:39:07Z")
> [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > In small populations where do you think mates would come from? Even from the evolutionary model, close relatives were necessary until a sufficient population existed. If the choices are “breed with very close relatives and have a higher risk of genetic problems” and “breed with nobody and guarantee that you’ll die out”, the solution seems pretty simple. It might be very icky but it’s no different than starving and having to eat bugs or worms or resort to cannibalism. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/48 "2021-08-23T22:58:25Z")
> [@Ranch\_Dip](#): > > In small populations where do you think mates would come from? Even from the evolutionary model, close relatives were necessary until a sufficient population existed. Wouldn’t they breed with the population they came from? So the first homo erectus would have bred with a Cro Mangnon from its tribe. The new genes would have to be dominant to proceed. Eventually all of the tribal children would have those new genes. Then they would eventually isolate from the original population and lose the ability to breed with them. Basically, the plot of [Clan of the Cave Bear](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear). ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/49 "2021-08-24T01:05:59Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > So the first homo erectus would have bred with a Cro Mangnon from its tribe. FWIW, [Homo erectus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus) predated [Cro-Magnon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_modern_humans) by a lot ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/50 "2021-08-24T01:13:54Z")
An excellent point, Sir. Live long, and prosper. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/51 "2021-08-24T01:15:00Z")
Well, they were very paitent. Women like that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/52 "2021-08-24T05:53:21Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > No, I get the point. It’s that he’s based his disbelief in something fictional with something fictional. I just see it as more of an irony than a pittable issue. Sure, but the Pit can also sometimes be more about mockery and poking fun than an angry rant. With all we have to rant about these days, I hthink we sometimes forget this. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/53 "2021-08-24T13:27:05Z")
For what it’s worth, the idea that a Vulcan and a human could interbreed is scientifically ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/54 "2021-08-24T13:33:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > the idea that a Vulcan and a human could interbreed is scientifically ridiculous. One of the Treks explained that by giving every sentient species a common ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/55 "2021-08-24T13:42:42Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > For what it’s worth, the idea that a Vulcan and a human could interbreed is scientifically ridiculous. As Larry Niven put it so memorably in his essay _Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex_, “Superman would find it as easy to mate with an ear of corn as with LL” (He used initials to avoid specifiying Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Lori Lemaris, or any other candidate) ---
**Author:** ![LauderdaleFort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@LauderdaleFort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LauderdaleFort)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/56 "2021-08-24T13:44:56Z")
Jesus became human to save humans from being fallen creatures due to Original Sin (commited by our human forebears), that’s why he Vulcans can’t be saved by “human Jesus”. That’s not fundamentalism or even literalism, it’s like the whole point of Christianity. (Of course thios doesn’t mean that Jesus, Heaven or Salvation are true, it’s just what most Christians believe). There is nothing in the Bible about aliens (in the SciFi meaning) so almost anything else is just speculation but Vulcans can’t be saved in the same way that even the smartest chimpanzee can’t be saved. But, this also does not mean that Vulcans go to hell. I don’t know what happens to them but just being Vulcan would not condemn you. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/57 "2021-08-24T14:05:10Z")
There are many theories about whether aliens can be saved, including one in which Christ was born, died, and resurrected on every planet with intelligent species. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/58 "2021-08-24T15:12:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > (He used initials to avoid specifiying Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Lori Lemaris, or any other candidate) Lex Luthor? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/59 "2021-08-24T16:25:14Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > It’s that he’s based his disbelief in something fictional with something fictional. So he’s saying because the Bible mentions nothing other than the cretion of Earth and Man, and the Jesus of the Bible is THE one and only Savior and his sacrifice for Man THE one and only sacrifice, then there can be nobody else anywhere to save AND therefore there can be nobody else anywwhere. Because or else the Bible would mention it, I suppose. > [@Kron](#): > > I can guarantee the list of things Ken Ham doesn’t know, but is willing to speak authoritatively about, is quite long indeed… Indeed. Myself insofar as salvation and beings from other worlds I have a Bradburyist leaning; each world would have its Savior(s), _if they need to_. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364/60 "2021-08-24T16:57:22Z")
> [@LauderdaleFort](#): > > But, this also does not mean that Vulcans go to hell. I don’t know what happens to them but just being Vulcan would not condemn you. They end up in limbo with the un-baptized babies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-spock-can-go-to-hell/949364.md?page=4)