# Mr. Terrorist, I seem to be missing your point. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961 "2004-03-12T20:40:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/41 "2004-03-15T13:25:44Z")
> [@dal\_timgar](#): > > “Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.” - Robert Heinlein You forget the corollary: - “The competent use violence well before last resorts are needed.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/42 "2004-03-15T13:44:54Z")
I find it amusing that so many americans have to imply that Terrorist have small willies and that women rejected them for bad sexual performance. Ridiculing them and the sick societies they came from make it that much easier to bomb them ? De-humanizing the subject into: > [@](#): > > burning their dirty rat nests and the whole society and civilization that begat them. Makes it easier to justify heavy handed politics ? ``` Its been pointed out time and again that these young arabs have little to look forward. AQ already has an easy time recruiting. The way americans make this a black and white issue and to be solved by violence, eerily the same way AQ paints it, only further deepens the resolve of young destitute men to join ranks. Its way more complicated that "Bring them On" machismo... know thy enemy or be defeated. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/43 "2004-03-15T13:53:25Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > **Marley23** - you’re right, that was a bad example. > > The September 11th hijackers were people who were seeing more and more islamic countries being overrun by Western civilisation or invaded The majority of such overrunning and invading done in the last decade all happened after the attack on NYC. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/44 "2004-03-15T13:53:46Z")
A group of angry young men fired by revolutionary zeal commit terrorist acts against a perfectly legal ruling power must be the Patriots versus the British circa 1770s Mau-Mau vs the British ANC vs the South African Government ad nauseum My terrorist is your freedom fighter or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/45 "2004-03-15T13:56:44Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > My terrorist is your freedom fighter or something like that. My “minuteman” ? 🙂 Curiosity, what did the Brits call American revolutionaries during the Independence Campaign ? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Skipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@The\_Skipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Skipper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/46 "2004-03-15T15:34:26Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I find it amusing that so many americans have to imply that Terrorist have small willies and that women rejected them for bad sexual performance. Ridiculing them and the sick societies they came from… Really? Then how does one explain the type of inferiority complex that compels a male machismo driven society to cut out the clitoris’s of women and force them to wear burkas (sp?). What are they so afraid of? Or to be so intolerant of non-Muslims. There is some sick psychology there. Where’s Freud when you need him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/47 "2004-03-15T15:41:49Z")
> [@The Skipper](#): > > Really? Then how does one explain the type of inferiority complex that compels a male machismo driven society to cut out the clitoris’s of women and force them to wear burkas (sp?). What are they so afraid of? Or to be so intolerant of non-Muslims. There is some sick psychology there. Where’s Freud when you need him. 😃 ``` Maybe the fact that the two big opponents delve into this kind of thing seems worrisome ? Talk about castrating Gays and liberals in America. ``` ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/48 "2004-03-15T15:58:27Z")
> [@The Skipper](#): > > Really? Then how does one explain the type of inferiority complex that compels a male machismo driven society to cut out the clitoris’s of women and force them to wear burkas (sp?). What are they so afraid of? Or to be so intolerant of non-Muslims. There is some sick psychology there. Where’s Freud when you need him. 😃 Clitoris removal actually seem to be supported as much by the women in these societies than the men, probably as means of keeping society in order and stopping other women stealing their husbands. Sorry no cites, but will try and dig up one if challenged (googling anything with clitorus in it is asking for trouble). It has particularly nothing to do with Islam, and is practiced by many Christians in Africa as well. Burkas are different issue. However, I would remind all the superior males in the audience, that women wearing a short skirt a hundred years ago in our countries would have been imprisoned, that 40 years ago blacks were effectively denied the vote in many parts of the USA, today abortion clinics are firebombed and people are imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay on no real evidence ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/49 "2004-03-15T16:30:08Z")
If we’re going to delve into underlying sexual psychology, I would say it’s the overall sexual repression in Islamic culture–not individual sexual inadequacy–that compels the need for another outlet for their passions. That and they see Western culture as drenched in sex by contrast. Muslims bust their asses conforming to the strict rules of their culture because they are told that’s how every person must live. Then they see us as flouting those rules and feel we deserve to be punished. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Skipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@The\_Skipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Skipper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/50 "2004-03-15T17:11:39Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > Clitoris removal actually seem to be supported as much by the women in these societies than the men, probably as means of keeping society in order and stopping other women stealing their husbands. Sorry no cites, but will try and dig up one if challenged (googling anything with clitorus in it is asking for trouble). It has particularly nothing to do with Islam, and is practiced by many Christians in Africa as well.{/QUOTE] > > Supported by the women? Oh, I doubt that. Unless the woman never experienced the pleasure of an orgasm, is sexually repressed, brainwashed, etc. People brainwashed by cults “think” they believe all sorts of things until de-programmed. Well, they do actually believe but they are unhealthy beliefs, IMO. Burkas are different issue. However, I would remind all the superior males in the audience, that women wearing a short skirt a hundred years ago in our countries would have been imprisoned, that 40 years ago blacks were effectively denied the vote in many parts of the USA, today abortion clinics are firebombed and people are imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay on no real evidence [/QUOTE] Yes, but this isn’t 100 years ago. And it IS the same issue. Where in non-Muslim countries do you see women wearing burkas? Plus, it’s the fact that all sorts of different expressions and beliefs are allowed in this country that sets us apart from them. Also, I don’t see what Guantanamo Bay has to do with the discussion as we are now talking about 9-11, acts of war, prisoners of war, etc. One looks at regimes like the Taliban and it makes this poster want to line them all up against the wall and execute them if for no other reason than stupidity. My .02 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Skipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@The\_Skipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Skipper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/51 "2004-03-15T17:15:56Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > If we’re going to delve into underlying sexual psychology, I would say it’s the overall sexual repression in Islamic culture–not individual sexual inadequacy–that compels the need for another outlet for their passions. That and they see Western culture as drenched in sex by contrast. Muslims bust their asses conforming to the strict rules of their culture because they are told that’s how every person must live. Then they see us as flouting those rules and feel we deserve to be punished. I think the two are linked. But you make a good point. The clerics, mullah’s, ayatollah’s, etc. see power and control slipping through their fingers with all the evil western influences. They cannot accept that the miserable failures of their society and economies is the result of the idiocy of their religion, hence… ---
**Author:** ![jymjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@jymjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jymjim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/52 "2004-03-15T20:03:02Z")
> [@](#): > > In those cases where the terrorists are in among a population under the control of a military power or a government they oppose, terrorism can make that government “crack down” on the whole population, making things worse for the general populace, and moving them all that much closer to rebellion against the ruling power. In the absence of terrorism and oppression, most people just try to get along, and don’t care about politics one way or the other. In other words, terrorists make things worse for everyone in order to make everyone their allies against the ruling power. I ws going to post a very similar comment up when i saw that you had already done so 🙂 Just wanted to say that, if you take the view that this may have some relevance, one needs only look towards the creeping totalitarianism displayed in certain western countries; a totalitarianism that will effec the whole world. > [@](#): > > I suspect you do not get the message because you are not the intended recipient. Thinks “Thunderball” 😉 > [@](#): > > Of course, the people opposed going into Iraq in the first place, but aside from that minor quibble… Yes, i agree on this point. Thave have been non too subtle comments made in the television media here that the bombings were the only cause of the conservative election loss, based on some unconfirmed opinion poll that put them ahead a few weeks back. That they say in the same breath that, as you say, most the country was against the invasion anyway (and i remember the large protests at the time), doesn’t seem to matter… Like Bush will probably (hopefully) be removed from power in the US, the cons in Spain have only reaped what they sowed. And yes, all the school yard talk of “you have little dick” is purile. ---
**Author:** ![crakcrjakc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47c2d/32.png) [@crakcrjakc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crakcrjakc)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/53 "2004-03-15T21:39:22Z")
there is a difference between real revolutionaries and these lame terrorists. the terrorists we are fighting don’t win becuase they are not revolting - they are just killing people. remember when the romans would take over a territory? they didn’t slaughter the citizens, they just defeated the army and took over. the terrorists aren’t trying to do any of this. they aren’t trying to take our land. they’re trying to (i guess) get western influences out of their land. (whatever that means) > [@](#): > > They’re vermin that should be merciless exterminated. We have no obligation to try to understand them or their reasons any further than what will help us in our job to eliminate them. If that means burning their dirty rat nests and the whole society and civilization that begat them. That’s what we should do. well said ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/54 "2004-03-16T14:14:51Z")
> [@crakcrjakc](#): > > there is a difference between real revolutionaries and these lame terrorists. the terrorists we are fighting don’t win becuase they are not revolting - they are just killing people. > > remember when the romans would take over a territory? they didn’t slaughter the citizens, they just defeated the army and took over. > > the terrorists aren’t trying to do any of this. they aren’t trying to take our land. they’re trying to (i guess) get western influences out of their land. (whatever that means) First, the Roman’s were colonizers, not revolutionaries, so I’m not sure what kind of analogy you are making there. Next, if you think international, Islamic terrorism isn’t a radical and insurrectionist response to a prevailing social order (i.e. the exploitation of natural and political resources – read: oil and cold war dominos, now post colonial hegemony) you are clearly not a student of Middle East and North African history. > [@](#): > > They’re vermin that should be merciless exterminated. We have no obligation to try to understand them or their reasons any further than what will help us in our job to eliminate them. If that means burning their dirty rat nests and the whole society and civilization that begat them. That’s what we should do. Well it looks like all doubt has been removed. Pick up a copy of William Blum’s [“Killing Hope.”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1567512526/102-6964106-2447315?v=glance) if you ever find the urge to know thine enemy. P.S. what is being advocated in that passage is genocide, pure and simple. I’d bet even money that statement is paraphrased somewhere in Mein Kampf. /godwin. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/55 "2004-03-16T14:47:23Z")
I want to see us [The U.S.] develop an alternative fuel source that makes oil irrelevant. And then I want us to get out of the Middle East entirely, apart from supporting Israel at some nominal level. In fact, I’d like to see us just sanction the entire region. The terrorists don’t want us there? Okay. They can all just fight it out amongst themselves. We shouldn’t care about them or their people, that’s what they’re trying to tell us. I just can’t help but think it’d be less than ten years before some nation was begging for humanitarian aid from us. Or more likely railing against us as a nation devoid of compassion. Sorry, fellas, can’t have it both ways… either we’re interested and get involved, or we aren’t and don’t. I think the poster who compared various revolutionaries around the world to the terrorists miss two important points - up until Afghanistan, we weren’t an ‘invading’ or ‘occupying’ nation… sure, American culture creeps everywhere, but no one was occupying territory without an invitation from the official rulers of the territory involved. Secondly… as far as I am aware, as long as the U.S. has been a nation, the targets we attack have been of logistical value. They matter militarily. (there may be some aberrations, I’m not a military history buff) We try to avoid civilian casualties. Terrorists actively seek out civilian casualties. I’m not saying that I approve of the 9/11 stunt, but why crash them into the World Trade Center, and not important military targets? Granted, they hit the Pentagon, but those other two planes were targetted at ordinary nonmilitary folk. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/56 "2004-03-16T15:15:37Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Let’s say that Israeli tanks are steamrolling your town, aided by soldiers armed to the teeth. You have no weapons and throwing rocks will only get you so far. What do you do, bend over and take it like a man? I would throw my rocks at the idiots that sent my son to blow up a bus full of Israeli kids. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/57 "2004-03-16T15:39:45Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > but no one was occupying territory without an invitation from the official rulers of the territory involved. > Am I wrong? tell that to the “official rulers” over the years of Iraq, Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Afghanistan, Philippines, Cuba, … 😉 - overthrowing legimate governments with CIA backed military dictatorships is usually much cheaper ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/58 "2004-03-16T15:47:45Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > tell that to the “official rulers” over the years of Iraq, Grenada, Panama, Haiti, Afghanistan, Philippines, Cuba, … > 😉 > > - overthrowing legimate governments with CIA backed military dictatorships is usually much cheaper I said pre-9/11 … so mark out Afghanistan and Iraq on your list. We didn’t take Iraqi territory in the first Gulf War as far as I recall, and if you’re thinking of us backing the rebels in Afghanistan, I didn’t think we had troops on the ground. Thought it was more of a money thing. As for Cuba… again, I thought it was primarily training and money. I’m not saying it’s right and proper to use our influence to back the overthrow of governments, but we weren’t an occupying force inviting attack. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/59 "2004-03-16T16:32:07Z")
Without addressing what Crakcrjakc wrote, the Romans are the preeminent example of what has been a successful cornerstone of western military strategy since the Greeks; invading and occupying enemy territory. History teaches us no amount of UN condemnation, European critical dialogue, American homeland security, economic pressure, etc. will remove the disease of terrorism. Invading and occupying whatever nation that engages in or further terrorism is not only morally acceptable but a military necessary. > [@cainxinth](#): > > Well it looks like all doubt has been removed. Pick up a copy of William Blum’s [“Killing Hope.”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1567512526/102-6964106-2447315?v=glance) if you ever find the urge to know thine enemy. P.S. what is being advocated in that passage is genocide, pure and simple. I’d bet even money that statement is paraphrased somewhere in Mein Kampf. /godwin. Well it looks like all doubt has been removed. Pick up a copy of Ada Augusta’s “How to Think” if you ever find the urge to try. P.S. What was written in your passage was stupidity, pure and simple. I’d bet even money that statement is paraphrased somewhere in The Dummies Guide to Godwin. You evidently have some great difficulty following a whole tread at least the above stupidity bespeaks of a pitiful attention span. For starters I suggest you try again from the top, not missing message #26. If some words or paragraphs are beyond your intelligence, which undoubtedly will be the case, feel free to ask. Not that you ever read “Mein Kampf” which you speak about with such authority or “My Struggle” for that matter. - Rune ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961/60 "2004-03-16T17:03:33Z")
> [@WinstonSmith](#): > > I didn’t write anything about killing anyone, though surely a great deal of that’ll be unavoidable. I talked about destroying the cultures or sub-cultures and part of certain civilizations that are bent on our destruction. E.g. Taliban, Saudi Arabian Wahabbism, Pakistani madras schools, etc. If they see nothing wrong in furthering the cause of terrorists who find it acceptable to plant bombs in Spanish trains, I see nothing morally wrong in ripping them up with the roots. Sadly, the only way we’re going to accomplish that is by force, and enough with the critical dialogue already. Of course this has the added benefit of make life better for the millions suffering under their totalitarian throwback society. > > - Rune Those aren’t subcultures, those are political and militia arms of Islamic Revivalism. they are a violent minority representing a silent majority of people resisting Western hegemony. Not only do you not know their motivations you don’t even care to know them. Rather than pursing dialog or non-violent resolution, you would like to just start filling body bags, and ask questions later. That’s both asinine and morally repugnant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mr-terrorist-i-seem-to-be-missing-your-point/233961.md?page=4)