# Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, on How to Pay for Medicare for All **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514 "2018-12-03T18:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/1 "2018-12-03T18:43:36Z")
Let us all rejoice, because the lovely Ms. AOC has found [$21 trillion under the mattress of the US military,](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/3/18122947/pentagon-accounting-error-medicare-for-all) so two-thirds of Medicare for All can be funded even before we start charging premiums. Setting aside minor quibbles like the fact that we haven’t spent $21 trillion on the military in total since the founding of the Republic and that her economic education did not seem to include anything about basic bookkeeping. She seems somehow to believe that we can squeeze $21 trillion out of a total yearly budget of almost $700 billion. This is the kind of fresh, outside [del]reality[/del] the box thinking that we need in Congress. Or else it is Ocasio-Cortez floundering in the depths of confident cluelessness, Part XXIII. It’s hard to tell. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/2 "2018-12-03T18:58:57Z")
Socialismo O Muerte! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/3 "2018-12-03T19:04:09Z")
The 32 trillion estimate for medicare for all is over 10 years, that’s the first reason for your confusion, and overall spending on healthcare would be about the same. The 21 trillion is from the years 1998 to 2015, so another comprehension error since none of these numbers has to do with a single fiscal year. Not a good look to make basic comprehension errors, one of which is spelled out in your own cite, when trying to criticize someone else’s intelligence. [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/30/17631240/medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders-32-trillion-cost-voxcare](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/30/17631240/medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders-32-trillion-cost-voxcare) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/4 "2018-12-03T19:05:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Let us all rejoice, because the lovely Ms. AOC has found [$21 trillion under the mattress of the US military,](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/3/18122947/pentagon-accounting-error-medicare-for-all) so two-thirds of Medicare for All can be funded even before we start charging premiums. Setting aside minor quibbles like the fact that we haven’t spent $21 trillion on the military in total since the founding of the Republic and that her economic education did not seem to include anything about basic bookkeeping. > > She seems somehow to believe that we can squeeze $21 trillion out of a total yearly budget of almost $700 billion. This is the kind of fresh, outside [del]reality[/del] the box thinking that we need in Congress. > > Or else it is Ocasio-Cortez floundering in the depths of confident cluelessness, Part XXIII. It’s hard to tell. > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, that’s pretty bad. Almost as bad as the actual President of the United States retweeting clearly false information about how much illegal aliens get paid by the US Federal Government each year. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/5 "2018-12-03T19:07:17Z")
I think her major confusion stems from the fact that the 21b was counted multiple times in transactions, not a total. Either way, it’s a hilariously huge number that she should have caught straight from the gate. Good for a chuckle. Of course, having a chuckle means we’re “scared” of her, or something like that. But she just keeps spitting these howlers out. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/6 "2018-12-03T19:10:44Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I think her major confusion stems from the fact that the 21b was counted multiple times in transactions, not a total. Either way, it’s a hilariously huge number that she should have caught straight from the gate. > > Good for a chuckle. Of course, having a chuckle means we’re “scared” of her, or something like that. But she just keeps spitting these howlers out. It also has nothing to do with a single year of the budget since both figures, the 32 trillion for medicare for all, and the 21 trillion mentioned, have nothing to do with one years budget. The OP is hilariously wrong considering he is trying to impugn someone else’s intelligence and reading comprehension and he clearly didn’t even understand his own cite. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/7 "2018-12-03T19:11:09Z")
AOC was commenting on the magnitude of accounting errors within the Pentagon, not saying that there is actually $21T available to be redirected. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/8 "2018-12-03T19:14:59Z")
Exactly, and it had nothing to do with one years budget either, so the entire OP is based on basic misunderstanding of his own cite. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/9 "2018-12-03T19:21:04Z")
The entire budget of the Pentagon has only been 18 billion in the last 30 years, so how could this 21 billion be real? Because they’re dollars that have been counted multiple times. So no, we could not fund 2/3 of Medicare for All with an inflated number. It makes no sense. It forces her adherents to insert explanations to fill the gaps. Which, I think she knows that. Ocasio supporters remind me of certain other politicians’ supporters in that respect. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/10 "2018-12-03T19:24:21Z")
Sounds like the President also agrees with Ms. Ocasio-Cortez that military spending is too high: > “I am certain that, at some time in the future, President Xi and I, together with President Putin of Russia, will start talking about a meaningful halt to what has become a major and uncontrollable Arms Race. The U.S. spent 716 Billion Dollars this year. Crazy!” ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/11 "2018-12-03T19:25:12Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > AOC was commenting on the magnitude of accounting errors within the Pentagon, not saying that there is actually $21T available to be redirected. She actually did say that: "That means 66% of Medicare for All could have been funded already by the Pentagon. " At the very least, she seems to think that an actual total of 21 billion existed and could have paid for 2/3 of Medicare for All. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/12 "2018-12-03T19:25:57Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Exactly, and it had nothing to do with one years budget either, so the entire OP is based on basic misunderstanding of his own cite. I suppose I could make a reference to his “confident cluelessness” remark in the OP… …but I’m not going to. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/13 "2018-12-03T19:26:09Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > The entire budget of the Pentagon has only been 18 billion in the last 30 years, so how could this 21 billion be real? Because they’re dollars that have been counted multiple times. So no, we could not fund 2/3 of Medicare for All with an inflated number. It makes no sense. It forces her adherents to insert explanations to fill the gaps. > > Which, I think she knows that. Ocasio supporters remind me of certain other politicians’ supporters in that respect. Dude the entire OP was discredited due to basic misunderstandings of his own cite. Her detractors remind me of haters of a certain other politician as well. Now that that politician is out of the spotlight they need to aim their ire at someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/14 "2018-12-03T19:30:06Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > She actually did say that: > > "That means 66% of Medicare for All could have been funded already by the Pentagon. " > > At the very least, she seems to think that an actual total of 21 billion existed and could have paid for 2/3 of Medicare for All. Psst - trillion. She seems to be getting [progressively more innumerate](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/aug/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-defense-budget/) as time goes on. By the end of her first year in office it will be 100 zillion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/15 "2018-12-03T19:31:20Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Good for a chuckle. Of course, having a chuckle means we’re “scared” of her, or something like that. But she just keeps spitting these howlers out. There you go again with “keeps spitting these howlers out”, a characterization that you can’t back up. Go ahead: show me 10 of these “howlers” that Miss O-C “keeps spitting”. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/16 "2018-12-03T19:32:15Z")
Sorry, trillion. Got me there. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/17 "2018-12-03T19:35:20Z")
Billion, trillion - it’s all free money! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/18 "2018-12-03T19:37:26Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Dude the entire OP was discredited due to basic misunderstandings of his own cite. Her detractors remind me of haters of a certain other politician as well. Now that that politician is out of the spotlight they need to aim their ire at someone else. No, there’s no discredit, it’s quite clear she _at best_, played with some fuzzy math that she didn’t have a full grasp of. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/19 "2018-12-03T19:41:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Billion, trillion - it’s all free money! > > Regards, > Shodan How hard is it really to add a few zeros to the next batch of bills to be printed? If socialism does take hold in the US how bad can zoo donkey stew be? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/20 "2018-12-03T19:49:48Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > The entire budget of the Pentagon has only been 18 billion in the last 30 years, so how could this 21 billion be real? Because they’re dollars that have been counted multiple times. So no, we could not fund 2/3 of Medicare for All with an inflated number. It makes no sense. It forces her adherents to insert explanations to fill the gaps. > > Which, I think she knows that. Ocasio supporters remind me of certain other politicians’ supporters in that respect. It’s not real, that’s the point. But there is something else here also - you seem to be indicating that counting something multiple times is inappropriate. But that’s not right either. If a company has interfund transfers of $1.00 that is due to accounting error, then it makes sense to describe that as an error of $1. If that same transaction happens one trillion times back and forth between the same funds, it is accurate to say that accounting errors resulted in $1T of transactions erroneously. It’s not an inappropriate double counting inflating the magnitude of the error. Now it could be clarified even further, but a problem that results in $1 of transactions a single time is much less severe than one that happens a trillion times. There was never any indication that this was real dollars that could be used. A different way to phrase the same criticism would be something like, “the magnitude of the accounting errors are so large, that if they were actually real we could use that money to buy another country.” It’s a way to convey the ginormity of the accounting errors. There’s plenty to criticize AOC over. This is not one of those things. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514.md?page=2)