# Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, on How to Pay for Medicare for All **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514 "2018-12-03T18:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/701 "2019-01-24T18:02:38Z")
They do have Pelosi too, but she doesn’t tick all the boxes other than Uppity Female. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/702 "2019-01-24T18:14:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, you cited a claim that only included the direct effects of the temperature, literally, freezing to death vs heatstroke. > > You did not provide a cite that global warming would save more lives than it endangers. > > Okay, you motherfucking cretinous fuckwad, not only do you talk just like the trumpster fire (“You will not find anyone who…”, one of his favorite turns of phrase is to praise himself at being less racist, or more accepting of…" ), but you lie like him too. > > Now, the fact that you claim to loathe him should give you pause when you act just like him. And there is also the fact that you are carrying water for his policies, as well as lowering the level of discourse. > > You may loathe him, but he thinks you are a great ally, and is quite happy with the work you are doing on his behalf. You are mischaracterizing the cite, but whatever. I’m more interested in, first of all giving you credit for a good quip with the “motherfucking cretinous fuckwad” response (were you the one whose “sick burn” I enjoyed a day or two back?), and most importantly: WTF are you talking about, saying I “lie like Trump” or that I am “carrying water for his policies”? Those are serious accusations that I consider calumnies. Do you have any evidence to back them up? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/703 "2019-01-24T18:22:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are mischaracterizing the cite, but whatever. I’m more interested in, first of all giving you credit for a good quip with the “motherfucking cretinous fuckwad” response (were you the one whose “sick burn” I enjoyed a day or two back?), and most importantly: WTF are you talking about, saying I “lie like Trump” or that I am “carrying water for his policies”? Those are serious accusations that I consider calumnies. Do you have any evidence to back them up? Well, to begin with and here, you did lie about me calling you a denier. I said that you fall for their pap, that is clear. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/704 "2019-01-24T18:24:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But the report is a perfect illustration of my complaint, that these agencies (when not controlled by right wing climate deniers) cherrypick the data to present only the negative effects. To show the projected increase in cooling degree days without any information on heating degree days (which will likely decrease more than the cooling degree days increase) is incredibly blatant. :dubious: > > ETA: STILL butthurt, EE? You need to get over it and move on with your life. If the liberal overlords of that website were trying to suppress their conclusions about heating degree days, some whistleblower must have infiltrated and posted this page: > **[NCA3\_Full\_Report\_04\_Energy\_Supply\_and\_Use\_HighRes.pdf](https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/downloads/high/NCA3_Full_Report_04_Energy_Supply_and_Use_HighRes.pdf)** > > 2.01 MB > [@](#): > > Changing Energy Use for Heating and Cooling Will Vary by Region > Consequences: Challenges and Opportunities > Region Cooling Heating > Physical Impacts - > High Likelihood > Hotter and Longer Summers > Number of additional extreme hot days > (\> 95°F) and % increase in cooling degree days per year in 2041-2070 above > 1971-2000 level > Warmer Winters > Number of fewer extreme cold > days (\< 10°F) and % decrease in > heating degree days per year in > 2041-2070 below 1971-2000 level > Northeast +10 days, +77% -12 days, -17% > Southeast +23 days, +43% -2 days, -19% > Midwest +14 days, +64% -14 days, -15% > Great Plains +22 days, +37% -4 days, -18% > Southwest +20 days, +44% -3 days, -20% > Northwest +5 days, +89% -7 days, -15% > Alaska Not studied Not studied > Pacific Islands Not studied Not studied The table implies that cooling degree days will increase much more than heating degree days decrease (but I can’t rule out that this is Fake Science from the Illuminati, Kenyanists, Antifas or the AOC gang). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/705 "2019-01-24T18:25:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They do have Pelosi too, but she doesn’t tick all the boxes other than Uppity Female. Yeah, and it’s hard to build a long-term branding and positioning strategy on a 79 year-old woman. Far better to take on the 27 year old as hating on her may result in over 40 years of revenues and profits. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/706 "2019-01-24T18:27:12Z")
It also stokes fear of the creeping browning of their country. With a little prurience mixed in. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/707 "2019-01-24T18:32:16Z")
There’s that too. These old farts looking at their 300 pound wives, getting a hateon in their pants for AOC. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/708 "2019-01-24T18:32:40Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If the liberal overlords of that website were trying to suppress their conclusions about heating degree days, some whistleblower must have infiltrated and posted this page: > [http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/system/files\_force/downloads/high/NCA3\_Full\_Report\_04\_Energy\_Supply\_and\_Use\_HighRes.pdf](http://nca2014.globalchange.gov/system/files_force/downloads/high/NCA3_Full_Report_04_Energy_Supply_and_Use_HighRes.pdf) > > The table implies that cooling degree days will increase much more than heating degree days decrease (but I can’t rule out that this is Fake Science from the Illuminati, Kenyanists, Antifas or the AOC gang). Not once have I accused them of faking data, so this is yet another strawman. Your “table” does not look like a table in your quote. and your PDF won’t load on my brand new HP laptop. The report had a nice, easily readable map. Why did that contain only cooling degree days and not heating degree days? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/709 "2019-01-24T18:38:09Z")
I got it on my 4-year old box at the office. Perhaps you bought the wrong computer if it can’t read a simple PDF? Anyway, here’s the chart on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/JohnT15/status/1088506183164547073](https://twitter.com/JohnT15/status/1088506183164547073) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/710 "2019-01-24T18:43:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Not once have I accused them of faking data, so this is yet another strawman. Cherry picking data to support a pre-conceived conclusion is just as much of a lie as is fabricating data to support a pre-conceived conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/711 "2019-01-24T19:04:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > They need a replacement villian now that the Obahillary beast is now out of power. It’s really that simple. Yeah, they’re like… _really_ bad at it. That’s the weird part. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/712 "2019-01-24T19:21:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I got it on my 4-year old box at the office. Perhaps you bought the wrong computer if it can’t read a simple PDF? > > Anyway, here’s the chart on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/JohnT15/status/1088506183164547073](https://twitter.com/JohnT15/status/1088506183164547073) This one almost got me. I was ready to acknowledge that it sure does look like the effect on cooling degree days outweighs that on the heating degree days, and just gripe “still, why didn’t they include it in the map?” But then I realized what “damn lies” tomfoolery they actually pulled with these stats. Let’s take Milwaukee as a proxy for the Midwest (it looks to be relatively central on their map of the region). Milwaukee’s 1970-2000 average for cooling degree days was about 710 ([Wisconsin State Climatology Office](http://www.aos.wisc.edu/~sco/clim-history/stations/mke/mke-cddu-2001.gif)). So a 64% increase would be an additional 454 degree days. Their 1971-2000 average for heating degree days was 7,000 ([Wisconsin State Climatology Office](http://www.aos.wisc.edu/~sco/clim-history/stations/mke/mke-hddu-2008-09.gif)). A 15% decrease is 1,050 degree days. This is the moment when you realize you actually provided more ammunition for my claim instead of rebutting it. :smack: Shading the truth this way is actually worse than what they did with the map. Here, they are actually trying to mislead people by using percentages instead of the actual numbers of degree days. And very few people will catch it like I did (yet almost didn’t). Tsk-tsk, climatologists! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/713 "2019-01-24T19:30:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The table implies that cooling degree days will increase much more than heating degree days decrease (but I can’t rule out that this is Fake Science from the Illuminati, Kenyanists, Antifas or the AOC gang). Or that you were fooled by their shady use of percentages, as most people would be (it was very sly). So I assume you are going to salvage some credibility and acknowledge that even though the table does imply that, it does not do so honestly and the data actually run the other way? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/714 "2019-01-24T19:43:16Z")
Let’s face it: these scientists were thinking “crap, if people in the Midwest [and probably in other places like New England–I didn’t do the math there] realize that cutting carbon emissions will raise their energy bills (on top of whatever it may raise them via a carbon tax), they won’t support the policies we know the Earth needs. So let’s see how we can obscure that fact without printing anything that is a flat-out falsehood.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/715 "2019-01-24T19:55:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the people preparing the reports are keen to effect certain policies vis-a-vis CO2 emissions. :dubious: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …that certainly would be how a conspiracy theorist would look at it. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Hardly a conspiracy. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Where is the evidence that these people are “keen to effect certain policies” and that they let that keenness override their dedication to the scientific method? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m not accusing them of malfeasance. They didn’t doctor the data. They didn’t lie. They were just selective, as a lawyer would be, about which facts to present. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I never claimed you accused them of malfeasance. Scientists are not lawyers. The comparison is asinine. > > Where is your evidence that they disregarded the scientific method and were selective with “which facts to present” for the purposes of “effecting certain policies?” > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Let’s face it: these scientists were thinking “crap, if people in the Midwest [and probably in other places like New England–I didn’t do the math there] realize that cutting carbon emissions will raise their energy bills (on top of whatever it may raise them via a carbon tax), they won’t support the policies we know the Earth needs. So let’s see how we can obscure that fact without printing anything that is a flat-out falsehood.” …so no evidence then. A conspiracy theory. Just as I said. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/716 "2019-01-24T20:04:22Z")
Amazing how you just skipped over the actual evidence from those reports. If someone pulled that shit representing a cause you don’t sympathize with, you would nail them to the wall. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/717 "2019-01-24T20:05:31Z")
There really is no end to your stupid, is there? The table clearly states the number of days for both cooling and heating degree days: “Midwest +14 days, +64% -14 days, -15%” Is there some part there that confuses you? Look, an extra 64% of cooling days is shown as a decrease of 14 days. A decrease of 15% in heating days is show as a decrease of 14 days. There is no attempt whatsoever to hide behind percentages, it categorically states the actual number of days involved for both sides. But somehow, in whatever it is that passes for your mind, you conclude that by giving both percentage and absolute number of days, they’re trying to mislead. Because…well fuck knows. They even categorically state that there are both positive and negative effects, in big fucking letters, as the sub-title for the chapter: “Higher summer temperatures will increase electricity use, causing higher summer peak loads, while warmer winters will decrease energy demands for heating. Net electricity use is projected to increase.” Nice, big, letters…yet still somehow to small for you to comprehend, or prevent you leaping to yet another “it’s a conspiracy” conclusion. Let me guess - couldn’t be fucked reading this article either? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/718 "2019-01-24T20:07:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Amazing how you just skipped over the actual evidence from those reports. If someone pulled that shit representing a cause you don’t sympathize with, you would nail them to the wall. :rolleyes: Well, not Trump’s wall, that’s never going to be built. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/719 "2019-01-24T20:15:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Amazing how you just skipped over the actual evidence from those reports. …I haven’t skipped anything. There is no evidence in the reports that the scientists that prepared the report disregarded the scientific method and were selective with “which facts to present” for the purposes of “effecting certain policies.” That was your claim. Your claim is not supported by the evidence you cite. Conspiracy. > [@](#): > > If someone pulled that shit representing a cause you don’t sympathize with, you would nail them to the wall. :rolleyes: Pulled what shit? Please be specific: what exactly was it these scientists did, and where is the evidence for their motivations? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/720 "2019-01-24T20:18:23Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > There really is no end to your stupid, is there? > > The table clearly states the number of days for both cooling and heating degree days: > > “Midwest +14 days, +64% -14 days, -15%” > > Is there some part there that confuses you? Look, an extra 64% of cooling days is shown as a decrease of 14 days. A decrease of 15% in heating days is show as a decrease of 14 days. There is no attempt whatsoever to hide behind percentages, it categorically states the actual number of days involved for both sides. > > But somehow, in whatever it is that passes for your mind, you conclude that by giving both percentage and absolute number of days, they’re trying to mislead. Because…well fuck knows. Uhhh…Gary? Those aren’t degree days. Look again. Your first clue should have been how small those numbers are. Do you understand what degree days are? Sometimes I enjoy gloating, but right now I just feel embarrassed for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514.md?page=37)