# Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, on How to Pay for Medicare for All **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514 "2018-12-03T18:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/741 "2019-01-25T12:47:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > ‘The world is coming to an end in twelve years’ is “a tad exaggerated”. 😃 > > Regards, > Shodan Yeah, a tad exaggerated from “we only have twelve years **to act** to forestall massive environmental catastrophe.” God, what a ditzbrain, exaggerating like that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/742 "2019-01-25T15:10:03Z")
By a thirteen point margin, Democrats would prefer to focus on improving the ACA rather than going for MFA: [Public Opinion on Single-Payer, National Health Plans, and Expanding Access to Medicare Coverage | KFF](https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/743 "2019-01-25T16:17:36Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Manfully (or womanfully) admitted, even with the soupçon of snark stirred in to make it slightly piquant. 😃 I’m glad you found my concession peppery or tasty, but no snark was intended. (I often notice claims going too far and, to my discredit, often ignore such flaws if they’re “on my side.”) BTW, I have a Y-chromosome; my sister Septima doesn’t (nor is she the long-time Doper named **Septima** ). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/744 "2019-01-25T16:28:17Z")
Manfully it is! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/745 "2019-01-25T16:37:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When I was a smoker, I was told all sorts of stats as to how long I had to live unless I gave up my smoking. > > Because there was some hyperbole in what they said, were they wrong that smoking was bad for me? Did they say “if you don’t quit smoking, you will die in six months”? You people slay me. $21 trillion from the Pentagon, the world is coming to an end - just slight exaggerations. It’s not like it’s about something serious, like an inauguration. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/746 "2019-01-25T16:41:39Z")
Exaggeration and hyperbole work in politics. Trump proved that. Can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube now. This is America. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/747 "2019-01-25T17:04:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, a tad exaggerated from “we only have twelve years **to act** to forestall massive environmental catastrophe.” Phrasing it like that seems deceptive, though. We do not have some mythical 12-year deadline that we have to get things fixed by. The less we do, the shorter the margin becomes. The tipping point could be less than 12 years if we keep making things worse. The world (our ecosystem) will not literally end at the tipping point, but it will be on an irreversible downward trend. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/748 "2019-01-25T17:05:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did they say “if you don’t quit smoking, you will die in six months”? > > You people slay me. $21 trillion from the Pentagon, the world is coming to an end - just slight exaggerations. It’s not like it’s about something serious, like an inauguration. > > Regards, > Shodan Or, you know, [6000 criminal gang members](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/criminal-aliens-gang-members/) crossing the Mexican border, used as an excuse to demand a Wall that is the reason the government is shut down. Or [18 million illegal votes in 2016](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/04/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-theres-substantial-evidence-vote/), used as an excuse to purge voters likely to support political opponents from the rolls and dissolve the voter fraud commission. But hey, it’s not like it’s something serious like a freshman congresswoman making a passing comment in an interview. Besides, IOKIARDI. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/749 "2019-01-25T17:06:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … > > If we told you that your cooling bill will go up by 64%, and your heating bill will go down by 15%, that is what those mean. It is not misleading at all. Cooling is much more expensive than heating, and insulation keeps out the cold great, but does little for keeping out the heat. > > You can look to your own utility bill to see whether it is beneficial, in terms of heating and cooling costs, to have a warmer planet. It may very well be, if you use electric heat in the winter, rather than gas or an efficient heat pump. > > Your “catch” is not actually anything of use. And, while it may be that I am reading the chart wrong, the # and the % are describing two\* different data sets and have only a, at best, correlative relation with each other. And, if so, any argument which starts with the assumption that there is a direct mathematical relationship between the # and the % is a flawed one at that. You know, arguments like: > [@SlackerInc](#): > > But then I realized what “damn lies” tomfoolery they actually pulled with these stats. Let’s take Milwaukee as a proxy for the Midwest (it looks to be relatively central on their map of the region). Milwaukee’s 1970-2000 average for cooling degree days was about 710 ([Wisconsin State Climatology Office](http://www.aos.wisc.edu/~sco/clim-hi)…-cddu-2001.gif). So a 64% increase would be an additional 454 degree days. Their 1971-2000 average for heating degree days was 7,000 ([Wisconsin State Climatology Office](http://www.aos.wisc.edu/~sco/clim-hi...du-2008-09.gif)). A 15% decrease is 1,050 degree days. (I wouldn’t hold up a lake city as a proxy for the (largely landlocked) Midwest, but whatever.) Regardless, you can have BOTH an increase in the number of REALLY HOT days AND an increase in the number of days you need to run your A/C, but arguing that the two must have a mathematical relationship so simple you can derive it just by looking at… how was it put, “cherry picked” data… is not at all accurate. �� \*Well, four - two data sets for heating, two for cooling. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/750 "2019-01-25T17:08:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Uhhh…Gary? Those aren’t degree days. Look again. Your first clue should have been how small those numbers are. Do you understand what degree days are? > > Sometimes I enjoy gloating, but right now I just feel embarrassed for you. Mea culpa, won’t deny my mistake there. Gloat away. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/751 "2019-01-25T17:17:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > ‘The world is coming to an end in twelve years’ is “a tad exaggerated”. 😃 No shit, it was fucking hilarious! The fact that she implied the world was coming to an end in twelve years, when what she meant was if we don’t take huge step to fix things in twelve years we’re all fucked…sure, laughed my tits off! Silly fucking cow, eh? I appreciate that it’s not a problem that will affect you, on account of you being an old fuck and all that, but considering you presumably love your adopted kids…don’t you wonder if it might be better to focus on the actual issue there, rather than trying to score some points against the young female politician who gets you so het up? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/752 "2019-01-25T17:51:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Shodan > > You people slay me… > > It’s not like it’s about something serious, like an inauguration. > > > > Regards, > > Shodan > > … > Besides, IOKIARDI. What does this even mean? (No, not the “IOKIARDI” — I didn’t know what that means either, but Googled it — the “serious … inauguration.”) My guess is: Fraudster/Traitor lied about his inauguration; Fact-checkers caught him in the Lie; **Mr. Regards** thinks that fact-checking was a waste of time; the trillions spent on that fact-checking should have been spent on more Benghazi investigations or on a military parade bigger and better than Kim Jong-il’s. Am I warm? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/753 "2019-01-25T17:52:43Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > …considering you presumably love your adopted kids… Point of fucking order. They are his _kids_. Full-fucking-stop. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/754 "2019-01-25T18:02:36Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Point of fucking order. They are his _kids_. Full-fucking-stop. You are entirely correct. I apologise to Shodan. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/755 "2019-01-25T18:03:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What does this even mean? (No, not the “IOKIARDI” — I didn’t know what that means either, but Googled it — the “serious … inauguration.”) > > My guess is: Fraudster/Traitor lied about his inauguration; Fact-checkers caught him in the Lie; **Mr. Regards** thinks that fact-checking was a waste of time; the trillions spent on that fact-checking should have been spent on more Benghazi investigations or on a military parade bigger and better than Kim Jong-il’s. Am I warm? He is implying that the Democrats/Left raised a tempest in a teapot over that, so, I guess, _why should we take them seriously_, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/756 "2019-01-25T18:46:33Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You are entirely correct. I apologise to Shodan. That’s very kind of you, and I appreciate it, but it isn’t at all necessary. It’s the same thing. However, now that you have triggered me, in penance you must now listen to an interminable monologue on how well my children are doing in their jobs, how we are going out for my and my son’s birthday tomorrow, what they had to say over the holidays, what my daughter did for her godson’s birthday, my son’s new hairstyle, where we are going for our next family vacation, etc., etc. Get comfortable - this is going to take a while. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/757 "2019-01-25T19:03:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s very kind of you, and I appreciate it, but it isn’t at all necessary. It’s the same thing. It is the same thing, which is why suggesting a distinction is entirely incorrect. The apology is entirely necessary. > [@Shodan](#): > > However, now that you have triggered me, in penance you must now listen to an interminable monologue on how well my children are doing in their jobs, how we are going out for my and my son’s birthday tomorrow, what they had to say over the holidays, what my daughter did for her godson’s birthday, my son’s new hairstyle, where we are going for our next family vacation, etc., etc. Get comfortable - this is going to take a while. Just a fucking shame then that if we don’t take major steps in the very near future (as a non-partisan person would have construed AOC’s comments) they and their children are royally fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/758 "2019-01-25T21:13:22Z")
Andros and Gary Kumquat: The kind of behaviour you just exhibited is a great reminder that even if we disagree vehemently on politics, there are good people on both sides. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/759 "2019-01-25T22:14:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Turns out my earlier tweeted weather forecast was a piker compared to what’s coming next: > > [https://twitter.com/slackerinc/status/1088639581619216384?s=21](https://twitter.com/slackerinc/status/1088639581619216384?s=21) > > Still time to buy low on land speculation up here for future housing development. Or medium-low: we already have a housing and construction boom. Why would I want to do that? Climate change will make extremes worse. You may end up having a slightly higher average temperature, but you don’t take average temperature to the bank. What you will also see is more and more extreme storms and temperatures. You will get highs that you’ve never seen before in the summer, and lows like you’ve never seen in the winter. You will also see record snowfalls, wind speeds and all the other fun weather activities. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > By a thirteen point margin, Democrats would prefer to focus on improving the ACA rather than going for MFA: [Public Opinion on Single-Payer, National Health Plans, and Expanding Access to Medicare Coverage | KFF](https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/) Improving the ACA is moving in the direction of MFA. I don’t like the ACA as is, it was, at best, an okay start. It was flawed, and pretty terrible, and the only thing it had going for it was that it was much better than what we had before. A reasonable government would start with ACA, and improve it, with the likely outcome and maybe even goal of eventually becoming MFA. > [@Shodan](#): > > Did they say “if you don’t quit smoking, you will die in six months”? I was told I wouldn’t see my 30th birthday (I did), among many ultimatums about things that could happen to me. Now, I didn’t die before 30, but there are those who did. If you tell me and my friend that we will be dead by 30 if we don’t quit smoking, and I am still around at 31, but my friend died from smoking related illness at 29, did I really just prove them wrong that smoking is harmful to my health? > [@](#): > > You people slay me. $21 trillion from the Pentagon, the world is coming to an end - just slight exaggerations. It’s not like it’s about something serious, like an inauguration. Well, you are the one that gets all butthurt about these slight exaggerations. They way you go on about it, you’d think that her comments were something serious. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514/760 "2019-01-25T22:54:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Or, you know, [6000 criminal gang members](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/criminal-aliens-gang-members/) crossing the Mexican border, used as an excuse to demand a Wall that is the reason the government is shut down. Or [18 million illegal votes in 2016](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/04/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-theres-substantial-evidence-vote/), used as an excuse to purge voters likely to support political opponents from the rolls and dissolve the voter fraud commission. Of the countless things I hate Trump for, one of them is that he seems to have sparked this notion for many on the left: “fuck it, Trump lies constantly, so why should we bother to be honest and accurate?” No. No! NO. > [@JohnT](#): > > And, while it may be that I am reading the chart wrong, the # and the % are describing two\* different data sets and have only a, at best, correlative relation with each other. And, if so, any argument which starts with the assumption that there is a direct mathematical relationship between the # and the % is a flawed one at that. You know, arguments like: > > (I wouldn’t hold up a lake city as a proxy for the (largely landlocked) Midwest, but whatever.) > > Regardless, you can have BOTH an increase in the number of REALLY HOT days AND an increase in the number of days you need to run your A/C, but arguing that the two must have a mathematical relationship so simple you can derive it just by looking at… how was it put, “cherry picked” data… is not at all accurate. It’s a little hard to parse what you are even claiming here, but I think it’s highly likely you read the chart wrong, and a certainty that you read my comment wrong. The numbers that Gary misread are about extreme cold and extreme heat. Is that what you are referring to? Because I didn’t link them to anything: my only reference to them was to tell Gary they were not degree days. ETA: Much of the Midwest as defined in this report (not including states like Kansas or Nebraska) is in fact part of the Great Lakes region. > [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Mea culpa, won’t deny my mistake there. Gloat away. I won’t! A straightforward mea culpa of this sort is much stronger than any other response you could offer (or not responding at all), and I respect that. A lesson that still needs to be learned, BTW, by liberals who are stubbornly doubling down on the Covington thing—and, yes: by Trump a hundred times a day, every day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-ocasio-cortez-on-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all/825514.md?page=39)