# MS Office 2007 - Word Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552 "2009-06-12T14:44:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/1 "2009-06-12T14:44:10Z")
Microsoft in its infinite wisdom changed the default file format in Office 2007 from the .doc format to .docx format. Yes, the new .docx format now uses XML but IIRC the M$ XML version is not compatible nor supported (yet?) under the international XML standard. Microsoft is again attempting to redefine darkness. But I digress. Word 2007 allows to change the default setting back to the .doc format so Word users prior to Office 2007 can read and write those documents. My question is this - When a document is saved by Word 2007 in the .doc format, is it really in the .doc format used by earlier versions of Word is it in the RTF file format with the .doc extension? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/2 "2009-06-12T14:48:23Z")
If you open a file in Notepad, you should be able to tell by the header. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/3 "2009-06-12T15:19:39Z")
I expect the format would be the same .doc format as the previous edition. I checked the header of a .doc saved with Word 2003 and the first few bytes are: ```auto D0 CF 11 E0 A1 B1 1A E1 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/4 "2009-06-12T15:22:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If you open a file in Notepad, you should be able to tell by the header. Thanks! This is helpful. > [@sailor](#): > > I expect the format would be the same .doc format as the previous edition. > > I checked the header of a .doc saved with Word 2003 and the first few bytes are: > > ```auto > > > D0 CF 11 E0 A1 B1 1A E1 > > ``` This is about Word 2007 and not Word 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/5 "2009-06-12T15:22:29Z")
Microsoft’s new format is _a_ standard (as it’s been released as such), but it’s not the standard that, for instance, Open Office uses. Microsoft’s previous format, the so-called .doc format is not .rtf; you cannot just change the name of a .doc file and open it in WordPad (well, you can, but you get a lot of gibberish and the formatting goes out the window). It happens that WordPad (and its predecessor, Write) can open .doc files by throwing out a lot of the codes that they don’t support, but that’s a separate function of the application. To answer the OP’s question, the .doc files written by Word 2007 are in fact in the same format as those written by earlier versions of Word. When you choose to save files in that format, Word 2007 will warn you that you may lose features and formatting in your document; that’s because it restricts what it writes to codes supported by earlier versions of the application. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/6 "2009-06-12T15:30:24Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > To answer the OP’s question, the .doc files written by Word 2007 are in fact in the same format as those written by earlier versions of Word. When you choose to save files in that format, Word 2007 will warn you that you may lose features and formatting in your document; that’s because it restricts what it writes to codes supported by earlier versions of the application. I’m not so sure about that. My reason for asking is I received a 225 kb Word 2007 .docx document. I could not open it since I use Word 2003. I asked the creator to save it the original .docx document as a .doc document so I could open it. The Word 2007 .doc document ballooned up to 10.5 MB in size. I opened it in Word 2003 and saved it again as a .doc document and that final file size was only 1.3 MB. I replicated the process several times just to see if I was in error. I was not. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/7 "2009-06-12T16:02:10Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I’m not so sure about that. My reason for asking is I received a 225 kb Word 2007 .docx document. I could not open it since I use Word 2003. Another possibility for you would be to [download the Office 2007 compatibility pack](http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en). ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/8 "2009-06-12T16:28:46Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > This is about Word 2007 and not Word 2003. No comprendo. You ask if the doc format used by Word 2007 is the same as that used by the previous Word (2003). I provide you with the header of Word 2003 (which I have) so you can compare it with that of 2007 (which you have). One of us here is missing something. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/9 "2009-06-12T16:28:53Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Another possibility for you would be to [download the Office 2007 compatibility pack](http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en). For me, that’s fine. As an option for those who use a public web site where documents are posted, do not have Office 2007 and do not want to install a 24 MB free viewer, it’s not viable. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/10 "2009-06-12T16:42:01Z")
Google Docs will read the docx format. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/11 "2009-06-12T16:52:29Z")
Docx format is not only xml-ish as you noted, but it is also compressed. That’s why the .doc got bigger. ---
**Author:** ![SlickRoenick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SlickRoenick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlickRoenick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/12 "2009-06-12T17:34:53Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I’m not so sure about that. My reason for asking is I received a 225 kb Word 2007 .docx document. I could not open it since I use Word 2003. I asked the creator to save it the original .docx document as a .doc document so I could open it. The Word 2007 .doc document ballooned up to 10.5 MB in size. I opened it in Word 2003 and saved it again as a .doc document and that final file size was only 1.3 MB. > > I replicated the process several times just to see if I was in error. I was not. docx, xlsx, etc are compressed files. Rename any of them to .zip and take a peek ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/13 "2009-06-12T18:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > When a document is saved by Word 2007 in the .doc format, is it really in the .doc format used by earlier versions of Word is it in the RTF file format with the .doc extension? No its a .doc but its not the exact same file, all things being equal. For instance, the code base of 2007 is supposedly a clean rewrite from 2003. So the software engineers at microsoft had to rewrite the doc export process from the specifications MS has documented (and by viewing the original 2003 code). This is also true of the Office versions for Macintosh. Each different version of Office that is a real rewrite will do .doc exports slightly differently. This is also true of Open Office, which is clean-room reverse engineering of MS’s doc format. So if you are exporting out from 2007 and find that the formatting is a little off its because of the incompatibilities introduced by the rewrites. There is no true .doc format as over the years it has evolved from MS’s kitchen sink approach. The doc format that is a standard doesnt have much to do with the doc format in practice. Recently MS released its internal doc documentation to the EU. So, you can see that there’s no “true” doc format out there. As for RTF. I cant imagine where you get this idea. Write a word doc and make it a protected form. Insert some images. Save it to doc. Now rename it to rtf. A standard rtf viewer cannot open this as those features are not in the rtf spec. I wouldnt be surprised if word or some other MS app recognizes it as a doc, regardless of the extension, and opens it up properly, but its not an RTF. > [@](#): > > I asked the creator to save it the original .docx document as a .doc document so I could open it. The Word 2007 .doc document ballooned up to 10.5 MB in size. I opened it in Word 2003 and saved it again as a .doc document and that final file size was only 1.3 MB. Thats conversion for you. The 2007 exporter isnt as efficient as the 2003 one or its reading some object wrong and wasting space. Who knows. You are assuming that there’s some perfect conversion process. Thats not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2007-word-question/499552/14 "2009-06-12T19:54:12Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Thats conversion for you. The 2007 exporter isnt as efficient as the 2003 one or its reading some object wrong and wasting space. Who knows. You are assuming that there’s some perfect conversion process. Thats not the case. The size of the resulting .doc file can also be influenced by the configuration of Word that creates it. For instance, there is a lot of collaboration information that can be saved in a document that can inflate the size considerably. It’s possible that upon using the “Save As” command, Word is resetting the collaboration features to the default for the local copy (for instance).