# MS Office 2008 for Macintosh: WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275 "2009-06-10T00:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/21 "2009-06-12T15:58:13Z")
I’m going to try out iWorks even though I already paid for Office. Am also seriously considering writing my entire next novel on Google docs. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/22 "2009-06-12T18:27:10Z")
Amazingly, Word 5.5 for DOS works just fine via a DOS box in Windows XP and running under Parallels on a Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/23 "2009-06-12T20:25:34Z")
As one of the developers for Mac 2008, I could answer all of your questions in depth. Questions about why we had to change the file format, questions about why the elements gallery ribbon had to be anchored, questions about why bells and whistles were added. But instead, I think I’ll just smile with my big douchebag grin and tell you all to go fuck yourselves. Ha ha ha ha. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/24 "2009-06-12T20:44:00Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > As one of the developers for Mac 2008, I could answer all of your questions in depth. Questions about why we had to change the file format, questions about why the elements gallery ribbon had to be anchored, questions about why bells and whistles were added. > > But instead, I think I’ll just smile with my big douchebag grin and tell you all to go fuck yourselves. Ha ha ha ha. ITT: Standard MS design philosophy, and why they’re so hated. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/25 "2009-06-12T21:46:41Z")
If the elements gallery “had to be anchored” because you couldn’t figure out how not to, you need better programmers. If it “had to be anchored” because you decided it was so awesome that nobody could live without it, you need better usability. Pages sucks too. You can’t even get a list of major headings in the navigation pane, only page thumb nails. I need to navigate within long documents with like-looking pages. Navigating around in long documents and moving chunks of text are the biggest challenges in any word processing program. It seems like both software companies decided to focus on people creating feature-heaving 2-page documents instead of the specific challenges of people writing long documents and just want those to be easy to navigate, easy to move text around in, etc. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/26 "2009-06-12T22:30:23Z")
There are many reasons why I still use Office 98. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/27 "2009-06-12T22:52:48Z")
Scrivener is kind of cool. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/28 "2009-06-12T22:56:07Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > It seems like both software companies decided to focus on people creating feature-heaving 2-page documents instead of the specific challenges of people writing long documents and just want those to be easy to navigate, easy to move text around in, etc. cricetus, for what you are trying to do, maybe Nisus Writer would be the solution? I seem to remember that it works well with long documents. > **[Nisus Writer Pro - Powerful Word Processor for macOS](https://nisus.com/pro/)** > > Multilingual word processor for macOS. Featuring an intuitive interface and many features not offered in other applications. I think you can do a trial of it without purchasing. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/29 "2009-06-12T23:02:09Z")
Thanks! I’ll check it out if none of the current stuff I’m trying works. Fortunately, I am starting a new project, so it’s a good time to change horses. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/30 "2009-06-13T00:46:07Z")
My two big problems with Mac Office 2008: First, it’s buggy. Word is the only program I have on my mac that ever hangs up my machine or crashes. Second, and this might be a subset of the first, but it is incompatible with Spaces and Exposé. If I have a word document open in space #1, and I try to open another one in space #2, the first one either disappears or the second one opens in the wrong space, or they open in the right space but the toolbars all flip to the wrong space, or Word crashes. When I’ve got several documents open, and I hit the key for Exposé to “show all windows,” and I click the word doc I want, it refuses to come to the front. Then I have to play a stupid game of click-every-other-window-I-have-open before it brings my desired document to the front. Drives me crazy, it does. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/31 "2009-06-13T01:08:00Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Newsflash to Microsoft: word processing software is a mature technology at this point. Your users don’t need or want a bazillion new bells and whistles; they just want software that will work properly with whatever operating system they’re currently using, and which will share documents seamlessly across multiple platforms. Deliver THAT to your users, and can the so-called “improvements,” and future generations of Word might not elicit Pit threads (which you don’t care about, I know) and show improved sales (which you damned well OUGHT to care about). **Artemis** , I want to have your children. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/32 "2009-06-13T02:31:43Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Thanks! I’ll check it out if none of the current stuff I’m trying works. Fortunately, I am starting a new project, so it’s a good time to change horses. Whatever you do, don’t ever use the worst word processing program on the planet, [Hangul](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul_(word_processor)). And, yes, I have to deal with that crud on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/33 "2009-06-13T18:52:40Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > I like iwork Personally, I like it when I do not work. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/34 "2009-06-14T01:59:11Z")
For all those ‘wwaaah waahh office ui suxors’ posts, you might want to know why everything was changed. I’ve watched the development of the new Office via Microsoft’s blogs and videos, and I can tell you that they’re not just random changes. I’d encourage you to do the same if you’re that passionate about it. Microsoft took reams and reams of data collected from monitoring user behaviour (ever seen the Customer Experience prompt?) and then rebuilt the UI to support the most frequently used tasks & tools across the board. Hence the creation of the ribbon. Also, as per the mature product not needing new features, I don’t remember the exact amounts but essentially 90% of Office 2007’s features were already there in previous versions, the key difference is now they’re more accessible and more noticeable. I understand that personally not everyone will like the new UI, but understand that your own dislike of it is an opinion not based on fact nor mass market usage. To cater for the masses and most common tasks, they were bound to piss someone off who doesn’t fit the mold. Generally speaking I like the new UI, but I find it frustrating when building forms and trying to insert input fields. But I’m not going to vilify MS as incompetant because of it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/35 "2009-06-14T03:23:08Z")
If the design problems are due to market research, they’ve discovered a problem with market research. It’s inane to argue that something people don’t like is actually well-designed, that the users just don’t know any better. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/36 "2009-06-14T04:29:27Z")
Wow people are still bitching about the new (and improved) Office suite? Damn late adopters! But yeah, you’ll get over it. Everyone bitched about the new Office until they actually used it and realized it’s buttons and options are in a much more organized, logical layout. There’s tons of little features that make it improved too, including a new file format and the live formatting preview. So have an open mind, force yourself to use it and once you find all your old buttons you’ll probably agree that it is indeed a better design than endless drop-down menus and tabs. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/37 "2009-06-14T06:22:28Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > For all those ‘wwaaah waahh office ui suxors’ posts, you might want to know why everything was changed. I’ve watched the development of the new Office via Microsoft’s blogs and videos, and I can tell you that they’re not just random changes. Okay, can you tell us what’s the justification for [QUOTE=artemis] Who the hell thought it was a good idea to come up with a new file format which is totally, 100% incompatible with all previous versions of Word (not to mention third party word processors)? What was wrong with the .doc format? .docx is a “improvement” no one wanted or needed! [/QUOTE] and why we shouldn’t find this person and kick them as hard as we can? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/38 "2009-06-14T09:41:33Z")
[This](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/jun/21/comment.comment1)article mentions some reasons why the new docx format was developed: > [@](#): > > Second, the current file formats have become overly complex, and a target for virus writers. There are good technical reasons for replacing them with something more robust. Third, programmable file formats offer huge business advantages, including data mining and the re-use of content. With .docx, for example, a company can write routines to change the letterhead on thousands of letters and perform other updates without changing anything else. I haven’t used Office 2007 much and don’t know if I will , but everything I have read suggests it is a well-thought out redesign even if everything seems strange at first. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/39 "2009-06-14T13:06:16Z")
No matter how long I use Word 2008 will I want the elements toolbar for the work _I_ do, nor will I ever think it was a necessary design decision to not let me hide it. Even if I do use it occasionally, it’s in the way the rest of the time, which is most of the time. This is my experience as a user. And honestly, I can think of very few things in any environment that must be always on the screen even though a lot of users won’t use it. MS doesn’t know better than me what I’m doing, so they don’t know better than me what I need. I am a novelist. 99.99% of the work I do is simply word processing with basic formatting. I don’t need (and can’t use) a single thing on the elements tool bar for this. So the elements toolbar is in the way, taking up screen real estate, and sitting between the word processing area and the tool bars that I do use. Knowing what I am actually doing, feel free to tell me why I absolutely need that to be there and why MS couldn’t let me hide it. Tell me why that’s necessary design. ---
**Author:** ![Purd\_Werfect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47c2d/32.png) [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275/40 "2009-06-14T14:55:38Z")
It took awhile to get used to, but I love Office 2007 now. I use Word and Excel extensively, and they’re vastly improved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-office-2008-for-macintosh-wtf/499275.md?page=3)