# "Ms." or "Mrs." President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451 "2008-09-13T15:55:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/1 "2008-09-13T15:55:52Z")
This just occurred to me and I was curious… If a woman became POTUS would what would the proper form of address be? If she is married is it “Mrs. President” (or "Miss President if she is not married) or do we default to the more politically correct “Ms. President”? Or is it up the the female POTUS to specify which she prefers? I could understand reporters abiding by her wishes whatever it may be but I also think there is a formal protocol for such things as properly addressing someone in those positions not subject to the whims of the actors themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/2 "2008-09-13T15:59:52Z")
I’m partial to Madame President. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/3 "2008-09-13T16:04:04Z")
I assume that as long as there is no woman occupying the office, there is no “proper” form of address. There is no custom about it simply because the situation has never arisen, but as soon as it comes up, a custom will emerge. I gather, however, that in the Philippines - an English-speaking country whose constitution was modelled after the U.S. one and which has had two female presidents fo far -, the custom which emerged was “Mrs President,” with the president’s husband being referred to as the “First Gentleman.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/4 "2008-09-13T16:06:07Z")
Head Bitch. I’m not a misogynist, but I play one on the Internet.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/5 "2008-09-13T16:07:41Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This just occurred to me and I was curious… > > If a woman became POTUS would what would the proper form of address be? If she is married is it “Mrs. President” (or "Miss President if she is not married) or do we default to the more politically correct “Ms. President”? Ms. is not politically correct. It is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/6 "2008-09-13T16:16:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Ms. is not politically correct. It is correct. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/7 "2008-09-13T16:20:33Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Head Bitch. > > I’m not a misogynist, but I play one on the Internet.😃 [Moderating] I’d also advise you not attempt any further “comedy” of this sort in this forum. This post is not appropriate for GQ. Do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/8 "2008-09-13T16:22:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > :rolleyes: [Moderating] If you have a specific objection to **Exapno’s** post, it would be better to state it than just post a rolleyes. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/9 "2008-09-13T16:29:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > I’d also advise you not attempt any further “comedy” of this sort in this forum. This post is not appropriate for GQ. Do not do this again. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Sorry, won’t happen again. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/10 "2008-09-13T16:29:48Z")
Minor hijack: Can you SAY Ms. in a way that sounds different to Miss or Mrs. (which sound clearly different, of course)? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/11 "2008-09-13T16:31:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > If you have a specific objection to **Exapno’s** post, it would be better to state it than just post a rolleyes. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Fair enough. Miss, Mrs and Ms are _all_ correct. It is not in error to say though that “Ms” is more politically correct than the first two. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/12 "2008-09-13T16:32:05Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Minor hijack: > > Can you SAY Ms. in a way that sounds different to Miss or Mrs. (which sound clearly different, of course)? When I learned English in school, we were told that “Mrs” is to be pronounced “Mississ,” whereas “Ms” should sound like an M, followed by a very short and unpronounced vowel (a [schwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa)?) and a voiced Z. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/13 "2008-09-13T16:50:43Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > When I learned English in school, we were told that “Mrs” is to be pronounced “Mississ,” whereas “Ms” should sound like an M, followed by a very short and unpronounced vowel (a [schwa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa)?) and a voiced Z. English is also a second language to me, and yeah, Mrs is mississ to me. But how is that Ms different from Miss? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/14 "2008-09-13T16:57:27Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > English is also a second language to me, and yeah, Mrs is mississ to me. But how is that Ms different from Miss? To me, Ms = mizz (the “zz” pronounced like the “zz” in buzz) Miss = miss (like miss the target) ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/15 "2008-09-13T16:57:59Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > English is also a second language to me, and yeah, Mrs is mississ to me. But how is that Ms different from Miss? I guess the first difference is the vowel. It’s clearly an I in Mrs, but that very short unpronounced schwa in Ms. And the final consonant is also different: It’s an unvoiced S for Mrs and a voiced Z for Ms. At least that’s my interpretation; I use “Ms” in mail and e-mail a lot, but I never pronounce it. I’m sure some native speaker will show up and enlighten us. ETA: Seems this has already happened. Thanks, Whack-a-Mole! ---
**Author:** ![DoubleJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DoubleJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoubleJ)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/16 "2008-09-13T17:02:10Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > English is also a second language to me, and yeah, Mrs is mississ to me. But how is that Ms different from Miss? It can be pretty subtle depending on how you pronounce esses and zees (or zeds), but “Miss” is pronounced how it’s spelled, while “Ms.” is pronounced “miz”. And to answer the OP, after 3 1/2 seasons of _Galactica_, I’m also partial to “Madame President”. (On preview: Apparently I need to specify that the pronunciation I use is what prevails in NE Ohio, and varies a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/17 "2008-09-13T17:21:32Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > I guess the first difference is the vowel. It’s clearly an I in Mrs, but that very short unpronounced schwa in Ms. > And the final consonant is also different: It’s an unvoiced S for Mrs and a voiced Z for Ms. Sorry to nitpick, but: Mrs. = /mƖs әz/ or /mƖs әs/ Ms. = /mƖz/ “Mrs.” (not Ms.) has the schwa (in the second syllable). “Ms.” has the vowel /Ɩ/. There are very few words of one syllable with a schwa. And there is no such thing as an unpronounced vowel (schwa or not). If nothing is pronounced, there is neither a vowel nor a consonant. [/nitpick] Anyway, since they address Pelosi as “Madame,” I’d go with that. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/18 "2008-09-13T17:24:08Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > And there is no such thing as an unpronounced vowel (schwa or not). If nothing is pronounced, there is neither a vowel nor a consonant. Seems the term I was looking for was “unstressed.” Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/19 "2008-09-13T17:41:42Z")
Thanks to all for the responses and sorry for the hijack. I will stick to Whack-a-Mole’s simple-enough-for-dummies answer. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451/20 "2008-09-13T17:49:27Z")
Miss? Mrs.? Ms.? Please! People, we’re not talking about the new high school principal here. It’s the president of a country. “Madame President” is how it’s done. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-or-mrs-president/463451.md?page=2)