# Ms. Pronunciation. Is it just me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 15, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884 "2024-03-15T18:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/21 "2024-03-16T02:45:40Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The _OED_ quotes someone in Philadelphia in 1952 calling the abbreviation ‘Ms.’ a “modern style”; the same dictionary also documents O. Henry using ‘Miz’ in 1907. It may well not have been unheard of in 1952; but I hadn’t heard it, or at least hadn’t seen it written. It certainly wasn’t common in print; or as distinct from Miss or Mrs. in speech, at least in the Northeast. There was a lot of fuss in the 70’s when people started using Ms. in order to avoid specifying Miss or Mrs. Didn’t the New York Times hold out against it until something like the 1990’s? – 1986, apparently. > **[1986 | ‘Ms.’ Joins The Times’s Vocabulary (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/insider/1986-ms-joins-the-timess-vocabulary.html)** > > More than a decade after the honorific entered the dictionary and blanketed newsstands (as a magazine title), The Times conceded it was not a fad. The link appears not to be paywalled. – I note, however, that that article says Ms. was fairly common by 1970; so I may have been behind the times. I would have taken the O. Henry usage as being a dialect spelling of Mrs.; though I might have been wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/22 "2024-03-16T02:50:30Z")
I give you Miz Lou(mizzou) Not sure how long it’s been called that. (Maybe 1905) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/23 "2024-03-16T09:21:31Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > hat article says Ms. was fairly common by 1970; Ignorance fought. I always thought it was unambiguously and conspicuously invented _de novo_ circa 1971. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/24 "2024-03-16T10:28:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m 47 and I don’t think I’ve ever referred to a woman as mizz before. Yeah, that means I’ve always used miss. Even as a kid, if a teacher was unmarried she was Miss not Mizz . I think that’s one of those things that somewhat specific to where and when you grew up. I started high school in 1977. \* The only way I had of knowing whether a teacher was married or not was how she introduced herself. But I was going to use whatever title she used for herself - there was no way possible for me to use “Miss” for an unmarried teacher unless she introduced herself that way. Because if she introduced herself with “Ms”, I had no idea whether she was married or not. \* I’m specifically talking about high school because I attended a parochial grade school where I might have known the teacher’s marital status even if she had introduced herself as “Ms”. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/25 "2024-03-16T10:50:07Z")
When the designation first came out, the sit-com with the greasy “Schneider” character had a landlord (or maybe it was her boss) who insisted upon calling the main character “Emm Ess Romano”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/26 "2024-03-16T12:40:55Z")
**Ms. Pronunciation. Is it just me?** It’s spelled ‘mispronunciation’, and it sounds like ‘miss-pronunciation’. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/27 "2024-03-16T12:45:27Z")
I write “Ms”, and I attempt to pronounce it “Miz”, but it often accidentally slips out as “Miss”. I’m still thinking “Miz”, but somewhere between my brain and my mouth, it shifts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/28 "2024-03-16T13:17:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think it may just be the same phenomena I hear in other words ending in /z/, where it gets devoiced word finally. This is especially true if it is followed by an unvoiced consonant, e.g. “Ms Parnell.” I think this is probably it. Say “jazz hands” or “razzmatazz” or “prismatic” quickly and as part of conversation, and there’s a decent chance the /z/ comes out as more of an /s/. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/29 "2024-03-16T13:23:45Z")
I think some people just don’t realize that “Ms.” is not an abbreviation for “Miss” and so pronounce it the same. Simple as that. That’s certainly what I thought growing up. So I would consider “miss” to simply be a variant pronunciation of “Ms.” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/30 "2024-03-16T14:23:49Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Ignorance fought. I always thought it was unambiguously and conspicuously invented _de novo_ circa 1971. That was Ms. Magazine; which may indeed have been the first place many people noticed it – in the fuss about the magazine, whether or not they read it. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/31 "2024-03-16T18:17:11Z")
Re: Ms, Marvel, It’s kind of weird. I assume that these people are professional voice actors with years of experience. It’s not like they’re going for some exotic accent. I don’t understand why they’re doing it. Edit: Sorry this was supposed to be a general reply, not directed specifically to you. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/32 "2024-03-16T18:24:11Z")
One Day at a Time. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/33 "2024-03-16T20:05:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > Weird. I was in Texas, which some argue really isn’t the South, and now in Arkansas, and I never hear miz. ⁢ > > Huh. I’m in Arkansas, and I hear “miz” all the time. It’s just not ever written as “Ms” but “Mrs.” > > Similarly, “miss” can be used for married women if it’s their firstname. Like my mom was Miss Betty\* to her kids. When written down, it would be Mrs. Betty Lastname, though I hear “Mizz” frequently, here in Georgia. It’s an honorific for late middle-aged to elderly women, regardless of their marital status. The bookkeeper at my store, for example, a Cayman Islander in her late sixties, is almost universally known as “Mizz Josette.” I most often hear it applied to African-American and African-Caribbean women, but not exclusively; I’ve heard it used for white and Hispanic women, too. For that matter, co-workers in there twenties and thirties occasionally call me “Mister [Personal Name]”; I’m in my late fifties, have been in my position for over 15 years, and one of the go-to guys for procedural questions. I suspect that’s what’s behind the impulse. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/34 "2024-03-16T22:24:25Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > (How does one punctuate a sentence that ends with an abbreviation, anyway?) I suppose ending a sentence with an abbreviation is not done very often anyway. If I were to do it, I’d just spell out the word: “I’ll have to ask the missus”, or “I wouldn’t do that if I were you, mister!” Et cetera. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2024, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884/35 "2024-03-17T07:07:22Z")
Love how you included the one abbreviation that often ends sentences, but then didn’t abbreviate it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ms-pronunciation-is-it-just-me/998884.md?page=1)