# MSG - It's not just for chinamen anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124 "2002-10-27T17:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/1 "2002-10-27T17:04:07Z")
did a search before posting, didn’t see anything. so here goes… I already know that monsodium glutemate **MSG** is used as a preservative, so please, no lectures on that… But why is it so prevelent in chinese restaurants? some places around here even market themselves as being MSG free. Local BBQ places don’t have to say that, nor mexican food restaurants, not seafood establishments either. Why is it so often used in or thought of in chinese food? Any other types of restaurants using it? * * * Just got through reading the phone book. Plot’s weak, but alot of charactors. Turns out Ziggy Zwick did it. (spoiler) ---
**Author:** ![psychomonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@psychomonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychomonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/2 "2002-10-27T17:12:17Z")
OK, no cites, but I know somone will be along with some shortly (if imnot) but I have done alot of reading on it (im mildly allergic.) MSG isnt so common as a preservative, as a taste enchancer. It allows resteraunts to use lower quality food and get the same taste as if they had spent slightly more. My memory is very fuzzy as to how it works, but a google search will be of great use, and in fact would have answered the question in the first place. -PSM ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/3 "2002-10-27T17:21:05Z")
Um, noclue, do you suppose you could’ve made your OP without a racist comment in its title? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/4 "2002-10-27T17:22:52Z")
Like I said, I _did_ do a search, not just on SDMB either, and found quite alot of info, but nothing to actually answer the question. > [@](#): > > Why is it so often used in or thought of in chinese food? Any other types of restaurants using it? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/5 "2002-10-27T17:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Um, noclue, do you suppose you could’ve made your OP without a racist comment in its title? Did not mean to offend, just wanted to get it noticed. Sorry if I did offend, will double think title next time. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/6 "2002-10-27T17:40:44Z")
Salt was (and still is) used as a preservative, but now is primarily used as a flavor enhancer. Same for MSG, but MSG is used in chinese food where salt is used in most other quisenes. But MSG is also used in many foods that you don’t expect. Chinese restaurants advertise “no MSG” because so many are allergic to it, and people expect it to be used there. Howzat? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/7 "2002-10-27T18:05:36Z")
Okay, so why bother to use MSG rather than salt in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/8 "2002-10-27T18:18:10Z")
MSG is used rather than salt because it gives food a meaty flavor that salt does not supply. [http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2208.html](http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2208.html) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/9 "2002-10-27T18:24:25Z")
MSG adds more than saltiness, it also adds “umami”, a kind of flavor that is subtle and generally liked. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/10 "2002-10-27T18:27:22Z")
Wow, Squink! Thanks. That pretty much wraps it up for me. If the rest of you want to continue, be my guest. Again, I apologize for any unintended insult caused by my title choice. I wonder why dogpile didn’t ref that site? oh well… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/11 "2002-10-27T18:29:11Z")
Thanks to all other posters, too ciao ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/12 "2002-10-27T19:28:52Z")
[Cecil on MSG and Umami](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mumami.html) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/13 "2002-10-27T19:55:55Z")
Hmm. Would it be “racist” to say “Marmite – It’s not just for Englishmen anymore?” I don’t think so – and I’d much rather have my race associated with MSG/umami than with Marmite (though I’ve enjoyed Marmite in certain circumstances and limited quantities). It strikes me the problem is not MSG is a poison, or “unnatural,” or particularly allergy-inducing – it’s that cooks who rely on it as a crutch to disguise bad ingredients or sloppy preparation (disproportionately, probably, found in cheap food such as takeaway Chinese) tend to use more and more and it overwhelms everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/14 "2002-10-27T20:16:29Z")
Huerta88: The term “Chinaman” is a racist term. The term “Englishman” isn’t. It doesn’t matter if you think it is or isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/15 "2002-10-27T20:20:04Z")
For Huerta88: > [@](#): > > _From Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary_ > Main Entry: Chi·na·man > Pronunciation: 'chI-n&-m&n > Function: noun > Date: 1789 > often offensive : a native of China : CHINESE Avail yourself of a dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/16 "2002-10-27T21:17:47Z")
[hijack] **Monty** – While it is true that “Chinaman” is defined as “a native of China,” many people, including many Chinese people, consider it a racial slur, partly because of past connotations. Some don’t consider it racist at all. It’s kind of like the word “Negro,” which some people do not consider racist but which many do. There are organizations with “Negro” in the title, but I would never use the word myself. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/17 "2002-10-27T21:43:30Z")
Anybody know how/when “chinaman” got its negative connotations? ---
**Author:** ![puubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@puubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puubs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/18 "2002-10-27T21:55:10Z")
In Chinese, MSG is known as “wei jing” = “pure flavor”. I don’t have it lying around in my house (I’m Taiwanese), but it seems to be more prevalent with mainlanders and Chinese restaurants (more so in the past than in the present). Anyone know if this is used more with HKers? I can’t really taste MSG, but my siblings are pretty allergic to it and thus get headaches. I don’t think it really has a taste, but if you get a reaction to it, that’s a problem. Well, there is the expression “not a chinaman’s chance”. In the book “Red China Blues”, the author remarks how she was offended by some missionaries using the word “chinaman” (this was sometime in the Cultural Revolutions – 1970s), but that’s because they didn’t ever return to the US and notice the changes going on. Probably going into the 70s, this term has been considered outdated – but then again, I wasn’t around then. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/19 "2002-10-27T22:49:34Z")
Yeah, in a different forum I’d have maybe noted that a single dictionary doesn’t unequivocally determine that a word “is” existentially anything, or that “often offensive” doesn’t equal “racist,” or cited another dictionary as “proof” positive that “\_\_\_\_\_-man” always and everywhere means “resident of \_\_\_\_\_,” or suggested that calling people pale devils (gwai lo) or red headed barbarians is potentially “often offensive --” but it’s not another forum and I think we all agree on the salient point that the OP by NoClueBoy wasn’t “racist.” When I was in Japan I spent none of my time worrying about whether “gaijin” was a racist or offensive term (which was good, or I’d have had hurt feelings a lot of the time to nobody’s benefit). Enough hijack. Much more importantly and germane to the OP. . . I would also suggest that the culprit in mediocre Chinese food is just as frequently the cocomitant tendencies toward over-reliance on: (a) gloppy cornstarch sauce bases that end up tasting all alike; and (b) excessive sweetness, as © excessive MSG. What say you, esp. any experienced Chinese cuisine cooks? ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/20 "2002-10-27T23:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Anybody know how/when “chinaman” got its negative connotations? \*\* I’d guess the same way that most other reasonable words now have negative connotations. It depends on where you live and the exposure that your culture had to “inferior races” (please note the " ") in the past. Specifically, I suspect that it happens more often when there was a reasonably large immigrant/migrant population, rather than just encountering these “inferior races” in their countries. For example, I suspect that the word “Black” is far more acceptable in the UK than in the US, although I may be wrong. > [@](#): > > Anyone know if this is used more with HKers? Anecdotal, but my girlfriend’s family is HK and her mother still has a jar of MSG in her cupboard (despite having been in the UK for 30 years and despite swearing that she doesn’t use it). > [@](#): > > What say you, esp. any experienced Chinese cuisine cooks? I’'m hardly experiences, but if you can’t cook a good chinese meal with the basics (i.e. using some of - meat, spring onions, soy sauce, cooking wine, oyster sauce, eggs, wine vinegar, salt, sugar, cornflour), then you’re in trouble. Then again, the GF’s mother does turn out better sweat & sour than I’ve _ever_ had elsewhere, so maybe she is using MSG. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124.md?page=2)