# MSG - It's not just for chinamen anymore **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124 "2002-10-27T17:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/21 "2002-10-27T23:14:22Z")
Could it be that cooks outside of China use a lot of MSG in an attempt to please the anglo taste buds? I know they modify the cuisine in other ways. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/22 "2002-10-27T23:50:20Z")
To be honest with you guys, I’m kind of embarrassed about using an OP title that _anyone_ finds offensive. Kind of like anyone of Hispanic origin calling me a “gringo”. I accidently (while researching something else) found out that the original connotation was meant as a derogatory term. I should’ve known that the same could be true for any other number of seemingly innocent terms. Thanks for understanding. now: > [@](#): > > Could it be that cooks outside of China use a lot of MSG in an attempt to please the anglo taste buds? I know they modify the cuisine in other ways. I have had authentic (cooked by 1st gen immigrants, as close to auth as I’m likely to encounter) Thai, Cambodian, and coastal Japanese food. Not at a restaurant, but in a family’s home. Some dishes were delightful, others were horrible! I don’t know any non-americanized Chinese people to sample “real” Chinese cuisine. Has what mangeorge asked happened? ---
**Author:** ![puubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@puubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puubs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/23 "2002-10-28T00:01:40Z")
I mentioned that MSG seems to be used more in mainlander and certain Chinese restaurants (more so in the past). Regarding the prior, this includes inside and outside the US. I have been to the mainland and seen people adding it. That’s not to say it’s a universal Chinese ingredient, however. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/24 "2002-10-28T00:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bromley_ > Then again, the GF’s mother does turn out better sweat & sour than I’ve ever had elsewhere, so maybe she is using MSG. :eek: I’m never eating at _her_ place. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/25 "2002-10-28T00:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*To be honest with you guys, I’m kind of embarrassed about using an OP title that _anyone_ finds offensive. Kind of like anyone of Hispanic origin calling me a “gringo”. I accidently (while researching something else) found out that the original connotation was meant as a derogatory term. \*\* Care to provide a cite? 'Cause the etymology of “gringo” is very disputed, although most would not conclude that it comes from “graeco” - “Greek”. Just as in English you can say “It’s all Greek to me” when you hear a foreign language or incomprehensible English. Hardly offensive. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/26 "2002-10-28T00:37:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > **’Cause the etymology of “gringo” is very disputed, although most would not conclude that it comes from “graeco” - “Greek”.** Sorry, that should read _most would **now** conclude that it comes…_ UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/27 "2002-10-28T00:47:03Z")
Well, it _was_ months ago, and I don’t have what I found then, but this site tells it, too [http://www.americanpatrol.org/REFERENCE/NOTES/Gringo-Defined.html](http://www.americanpatrol.org/REFERENCE/NOTES/Gringo-Defined.html) partial quote: > [@](#): > > grin.go (gring?go) noun > plural grin.gos > Offensive Slang. > Used as a disparaging term for a foreigner in Latin America, especially > an American or English person. But, all those years I lived in South Texas, I never took it that way and I doubt it was often (if ever) meant that way. Just goes to show ya, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/28 "2002-10-28T00:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*Well, it _was_ months ago, and I don’t have what I found then, but this site tells it, too \*\* Yes, it is a disparaging term _now_, but your post made it seem as if it was _originally_ an offensive term. “Gringo” came to refer to Americans in a negative light only relatively recently, because of the way certain Americans presented themselves in Latin America, creating a stereotype that, in such places as Guatemala in 1954 and Chile twenty years later, proved itself unfortunately faithful to reality. But this has gotten off track enough, back to discussing food additives… UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/29 "2002-10-28T01:30:42Z")
1849 is recent? But, yes, enough nitpicking please. (I’m agreeing with you UnoMondo) I’m not going to respond to anymore “racial slur” type posts or questions on this thread. **Any way to change my OP title, Moderator?** I am going to post the question on Great Debates, tho. I have an inquiring mind. Anyone else, feel free to post **MSG** related stuff here… ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/30 "2002-10-28T01:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*Could it be that cooks outside of China use a lot of MSG in an attempt to please the anglo taste buds? I know they modify the cuisine in other ways. > Peace, > mangeorge \*\* I definitely think that the catering-to-perceived-gwai-lo-sensibilities phenomenon is a part of it (you’ll note that often happens, especially in more suburban Western environs, with the heat factor in Szechuan/Hunan food). It does also seem that the pressure to have the cheapest food, with the cheapest ingredients, which appears to drive so much of the storefront/takeaway Chinese restaurant trade, plays a part (that, and the uncritical palates of many a college student/suburbanite/late night refugee from tavern, all of whom seem to form a substantial part of the Chinese restaurant clientele and all of whom I’ve numbered among). Any shortcut (including amping up the flavor with MSG) is welcome to keep the cost under $3.95. You could also speculate that many lower-end Chinese restaurants are operating in constrained/antiquated storefront conditions, which limit their cooking options. Finally, at least in the U.S., many Chinese restaurants obtain their ingredients/dishes (or at least partially-prepared constituents of the dishes) from central warehouses, then just stir fry them on demand, which likely leads to a lot of the perception of uniformity/mediocrity. My (very limited) exposure to Asian Asian restaurants/food (if that makes sense) suggests that MSG (in the guise of “five spice powder?”) is not a stranger to many of the home/restaurant cooks of that continent, though in general you might expect to find more “authentic” food there than in the U.S./Europe (although “authenticity” can be a double-edged sword with restaurants in less-developed countries, and in my (again limited) experience, hygiene/ingredient quality and the like are somewhat more consistent (though far from ideal) at Western-world Asian restaurants than in Asia). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/31 "2002-10-28T01:46:31Z")
here is the GD link [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141506](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141506) Thanks again to all of you. Really. It has been some interesting reading. ---
**Author:** ![puubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@puubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puubs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/32 "2002-10-28T02:12:14Z")
Five spice powder (wu xiang fen) is not the same as MSG (wei jing). As mentioned before, I don’t think most Taiwanese use MSG. MSG is actually somewhat tasteless. Five spice has a very pungent flavor. However, I have seen MSG used IN CHINA, and not just in cheap Chinese restaurants. As for the history of this, (and also to add – many Chinese restaurants in the US are owned by people from HK), I am not clear. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/33 "2002-10-28T02:45:00Z")
Aha. Do any brands of five spice powder ever contain MSG? I agree with your characterization that (esp. from the little I’ve seen in Asia) Asian chefs don’t really attach a stigma to MSG/umami, which they view as just another flavor, although they might attach a stigma to \ reliance on any one flavor, including MSG. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/34 "2002-10-28T02:57:44Z")
I seem to recall a 60 minutes / 20-20 report from maybe ten years ago claiming scientific evidence that the purported symptoms allegedly caused by MSG was shown to be caused by something else, or maybe psychosomatic. Ring any bells with anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/35 "2002-10-28T03:01:09Z")
When I worked in a small bakery as a teenager we used MSG (called “chinese salt” back then), but I don’t remember what we put it in. I think it was in a specialty bread. Certainly not in cakes, donuts, and the like. If you hold MSG on your tongue for a moment you can taste it. It tastes, well, kinda salty-meaty. 😉 Like that cheap jerky stuff in convenience stores, only more subtle. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/36 "2002-10-28T07:32:12Z")
It said “often offensive” not “offensive.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/37 "2002-10-28T14:22:59Z")
**Revtim asks** : “the purported symptoms allegedly caused by MSG was shown to be caused by something else, or maybe psychosomatic. Ring any bells with anybody else?” This thread: [I heard that monosodium glutamate causes brain damage. What have studies shown?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129841) has refs that claim the Chinese restaurant effect is mostly the product of persistent rumor, not MSG. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/38 "2002-10-28T14:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **Flavor Enhancer MSG Linked to Blindness in Rats** > > Reuters Health > > Wednesday, October 23, 2002 > > LONDON (Reuters) - High levels of a flavor enhancer common in Asian and processed food can cause serious eye damage and blindness in rats and possibly humans. > > Scientists at Hirosaki University in Japan said rats fed a diet high in monosodium glutamate, or MSG, suffered vision problems and had thinner retinas than other animals. Read more [here](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_9997.html)! ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/39 "2002-10-28T14:49:25Z")
MSG is definitely a preferred ingredient in mainland Chinese cooking, at least in the Shaghai region (where my wife is from). She also insists on using it in dishes she prepares for herself, although we have agreed that it is not to be sued for dishes we share… ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124/40 "2002-10-28T14:58:44Z")
The reason some Chinese restaurants advertise as being MSG free is because to some of us, MSG can cause very serious complications. I sed to be flat on my back with a perforated ulcer for several days at a time about 20 years ago when I was in college. It was a very unpleasant, terrible pain which later turned into a bleeding ulcer. A couple of times I was forced to spend days in a hospital. No medication seemed to give me any relief from this. I finally noticed these bouts, when they would occur, were always occurring at the start of the week. The reason was because we’d go to a Sunday all-you-can-eat Chines buffet back when the use of MSG in Chinese restaurants was so prevalent. Once I made the association and avoided the use of MSG both there and in any spices I’d purchase, these life-threatening and darn painful episodes finally stopped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/msg-its-not-just-for-chinamen-anymore/134124.md?page=3)